I agree with Cohh entirely, I'm loving the intricate levels similar to Guk when I first played Eq1. But Desert of Ro was my favorite zone in the game as a child. Simple, vast, dangerous, and fun. What they showed off last stream was gorgeous. I just hope they aren't being too indulgent with the details. There's a reason that the plains around Yosemite are just as popular as the hikes themselves.
Nailuj said:I don't really care for Cohh, I find him to be fake and the things he does during the streams just take away from what the dev's are trying to show. However I have to agree with what he's saying in these clips. They need to just hunker down and make the game, not every zone / dungeon needs to be super beautiful amazing. The gameplay is what will attract and keep players, not the graphics
Completely agree.
Kalok said:These same people crying that it needs to be released "now now now" even if it doesn't have all of the stuff are the same ones that cry about the "incomplete mechanics" and "incomplete artwork"on all of the streams. They're also the same ones that will scream "This is just another Vanguard" if they release it incomplete like they're crying for them to. You can deny it all you want, but your previous statements say otherwise.
This is the exact type of response that shows you have zero clue what it is we're trying to say. Nobody is saying for them to release now now now, I sure as hell aren't. My biggest beef right now is how developement of this game changed dynamics dramatically. I found out about this game before the Kickstarter even launched. I think Brad registered the domain sometime around November/December of 2013. At the beginning, this game was being marketed as a more niche game that was going to be a home for all the forgotten gamers who wanted an old school MMO experience. The development was going to be open, transparent and follow the traditional dev cycle where alpha, and beta were actual testing sessions, not early access and we were going along for the ride. This is exactly how the first few years felt. I remember the day the first stream was shown. EQNext had just been cancelled earlier that same day and Pantheon did it's first stream. The graphics were awful of course, but I sat there saying I'd play the game just like it was because I could see what it was going for. There was so much excitement that day it was palpable. Over the next couple years we had streams every couple months and it actually felt like we were part of the process for a good amount of things.
Then Asmongold and his cronies made some scathing comments about the game and it's graphics. Shortly after this, VR decided to to a complete paradigm shift in development. They were going to make alpha release like quality (exact opposite of original stated intentions) and they went dark for almost a year. The last PA was in December 2018 and PF has been talked about since June of 2018. Alpha was announced as being by end of 2018 and here it is almost Q2 of 2020 and we are still awaiting the announcement of the next PA. While information is still released, it feels more closed off. Things are kept much closer to the vest and we mostly get comments like "we're not ready to answer that" or "soon TM". I get it to a degree, but that's not the development cadence I signed up for. Pledges were made and money was taken under the guise of my first paragraph.
My point is, I think when you shift gears that far fundamentally, you do owe your long time backers something more because that's what they signed up for. Maybe take some people who are alpha backers and break them up into sections and let small pockets in each PA weekend so they can see for themselves. I'm obviously not advocating letting the masses in all at once because I know it's not ready for that, but throw them a bone. The game has just gone from seeming like it was on the very track we were told and we could see it more for ourselves, to being told it's still on track but they don't want to show us too much. I just don't buy the phrase "we don't want to ruin the whole game by showing too much", I think that's a cop out. If the zones are as big as advertised and quests are tied to perception and all this other stuff, we won't see and know everything by a landslide. As an example, the last Cohh stream in Faerthale they showed very little of Fairthale itself past the teaser trailer area. They did show Isle off, but that was a smaller open raid area. Oldwood we saw greyboxing and they barely ran in. I miss the streams like they did of the North Tusk Orc area in Avendyr's Pass. Sure all the buildings were grey boxed, but we kind of got to experience the area, feel the excitement, walk around. The making of Thronefast we toured the city and saw all those buildings grey boxed and it was awesome. It just feels weird that they aren't willing to show much except the bare minimum to keep people hanging by a thread and pledging.
For those that think they have all these zones secretly done in tandem, I have a bridge in Brooklyn and some ships in Star Citizen for sale. Granted they have probably done the initial work on other zones we haven't seen, but I'd wager that's the extent of it. All the NPCs need placed and pathed, quests added, perception added, etc. That all takes huge amounts of time and they are still working on that for just PF itself, let alone any other zones. As the phrase being floated around that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, I'd also argue that it's neither proof of completion either.
I think there's many levels of things VR could do, but to this point aren't. A cool thing that could be done is just do a flyover of a zone we haven't seen. Doesn't need to be the whole zone, but do parts of one we haven't seen. Wouldn't require getting everyone together to do a play through either. I think that would be awesome. Like I said, there's tons that could be done while still keeping plenty of things as a surprise for launch. I want to make it clear I'm not shitting on the game, calling it vaporware or any such thing. I'm just hugely disappointed that the project I signed up to be a part of feels less like it is now than it did 3 years ago. I believe that's where a lot of the angst lies. We all want to see the game come out and be the best, at least I do. I'd just like it to feel that things aren't so secretive.
I don't speak for all those who have posted their thoughts that might have been perceived as negative, but this is how I feel as someone who's followed the project since it's literal inception. I don't need anyone to tell me to take a break either lol. I could tell you to take a break also if you don't like reading comments from the opposing view. Sometimes constructive criticism can be a good thing and an overall positive, it doesn't have to mean the sky is falling and need someone to come running to the defense. However, I'm fully expecting the White Knight Rohirrim to charge me and the orcs at Helm's Deep after they read this.
Cheers
Zorkon said:I would like to make note Dev's that this is the same 5 or 6 impatient people complaining and whining about the same impatient things while claiming "we ALL want to know" and this is "what EVERYBODY thinks"
While the other 10,000 of us on this site are ignoring them and hoping they don't convince you to compromise the Quality of the product you are creating for us to rush it out so they can rush through it to end level where they can continue their crying.
I'd also like to point out those nice BRIEF cherry picked clips and a saying that comes to mind whenever I see somebody doing such things...
Text, without Context, is Pretext!
give it a rest you three, go play project 99 and come back in 6 months, getting tired of your whining!
Clips on Twitch are a maximum of 60 seconds.
These are not cherry picked clips, they are back to back for the 3 minutes he spoke about the game one morning.
You're welcome to go and check his video and see for yourself to stop your ignorant and uninformed negative posting. But I wouldn't expect you to be able to do that.
So VR showcase some zones that are good-looking and complex and we jump to the conclusion they are over-engineering every zone?
Let me ask this: If they have some more plain-looking zones planned, would they do those first and showcase *them*?
How many times can they straight-out say that they aren't showing us anywhere near everything before people stop extrapolating theories from just the taster stuff they show us?
As for specifically what Cohh said: Duh. "You've got to get a balance of quality and quantity". Wow. Hold the front page. Bet the devs didn't think of that. "They need to just get it done". Oh, yeah! Great idea!
If you actually listen to his comments in context, he is not being the slightest bit negative about VR or Pantheon as it is being developed. Is he implying VR are *not* balancing quantity and quality or *not* getting things done? Nope.
Is he just saying stuff (for anything, including Pantheon development and making breakfast) that makes sense that any viewer can nod along to? Yup.
Mandalorian2K said:Kalok said:These same people crying that it needs to be released "now now now" even if it doesn't have all of the stuff are the same ones that cry about the "incomplete mechanics" and "incomplete artwork"on all of the streams. They're also the same ones that will scream "This is just another Vanguard" if they release it incomplete like they're crying for them to. You can deny it all you want, but your previous statements say otherwise.
This is the exact type of response that shows you have zero clue what it is we're trying to say. Nobody is saying for them to release now now now, I sure as hell aren't. My biggest beef right now is how developement of this game changed dynamics dramatically. I found out about this game before the Kickstarter even launched. I think Brad registered the domain sometime around November/December of 2013. At the beginning, this game was being marketed as a more niche game that was going to be a home for all the forgotten gamers who wanted an old school MMO experience. The development was going to be open, transparent and follow the traditional dev cycle where alpha, and beta were actual testing sessions, not early access and we were going along for the ride. This is exactly how the first few years felt. I remember the day the first stream was shown. EQNext had just been cancelled earlier that same day and Pantheon did it's first stream. The graphics were awful of course, but I sat there saying I'd play the game just like it was because I could see what it was going for. There was so much excitement that day it was palpable. Over the next couple years we had streams every couple months and it actually felt like we were part of the process for a good amount of things.
Then Asmongold and his cronies made some scathing comments about the game and it's graphics. Shortly after this, VR decided to to a complete paradigm shift in development. They were going to make alpha release like quality (exact opposite of original stated intentions) and they went dark for almost a year. The last PA was in December 2018 and PF has been talked about since June of 2018. Alpha was announced as being by end of 2018 and here it is almost Q2 of 2020 and we are still awaiting the announcement of the next PA. While information is still released, it feels more closed off. Things are kept much closer to the vest and we mostly get comments like "we're not ready to answer that" or "soon TM". I get it to a degree, but that's not the development cadence I signed up for. Pledges were made and money was taken under the guise of my first paragraph.
My point is, I think when you shift gears that far fundamentally, you do owe your long time backers something more because that's what they signed up for. Maybe take some people who are alpha backers and break them up into sections and let small pockets in each PA weekend so they can see for themselves. I'm obviously not advocating letting the masses in all at once because I know it's not ready for that, but throw them a bone. The game has just gone from seeming like it was on the very track we were told and we could see it more for ourselves, to being told it's still on track but they don't want to show us too much. I just don't buy the phrase "we don't want to ruin the whole game by showing too much", I think that's a cop out. If the zones are as big as advertised and quests are tied to perception and all this other stuff, we won't see and know everything by a landslide. As an example, the last Cohh stream in Faerthale they showed very little of Fairthale itself past the teaser trailer area. They did show Isle off, but that was a smaller open raid area. Oldwood we saw greyboxing and they barely ran in. I miss the streams like they did of the North Tusk Orc area in Avendyr's Pass. Sure all the buildings were grey boxed, but we kind of got to experience the area, feel the excitement, walk around. The making of Thronefast we toured the city and saw all those buildings grey boxed and it was awesome. It just feels weird that they aren't willing to show much except the bare minimum to keep people hanging by a thread and pledging.
For those that think they have all these zones secretly done in tandem, I have a bridge in Brooklyn and some ships in Star Citizen for sale. Granted they have probably done the initial work on other zones we haven't seen, but I'd wager that's the extent of it. All the NPCs need placed and pathed, quests added, perception added, etc. That all takes huge amounts of time and they are still working on that for just PF itself, let alone any other zones. As the phrase being floated around that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, I'd also argue that it's neither proof of completion either.
I think there's many levels of things VR could do, but to this point aren't. A cool thing that could be done is just do a flyover of a zone we haven't seen. Doesn't need to be the whole zone, but do parts of one we haven't seen. Wouldn't require getting everyone together to do a play through either. I think that would be awesome. Like I said, there's tons that could be done while still keeping plenty of things as a surprise for launch. I want to make it clear I'm not shitting on the game, calling it vaporware or any such thing. I'm just hugely disappointed that the project I signed up to be a part of feels less like it is now than it did 3 years ago. I believe that's where a lot of the angst lies. We all want to see the game come out and be the best, at least I do. I'd just like it to feel that things aren't so secretive.
I don't speak for all those who have posted their thoughts that might have been perceived as negative, but this is how I feel as someone who's followed the project since it's literal inception. I don't need anyone to tell me to take a break either lol. I could tell you to take a break also if you don't like reading comments from the opposing view. Sometimes constructive criticism can be a good thing and an overall positive, it doesn't have to mean the sky is falling and need someone to come running to the defense. However, I'm fully expecting the White Knight Rohirrim to charge me and the orcs at Helm's Deep after they read this.
Cheers
I know EXACTLY what you're saying. You're demanding that they put out a sub-par game so *YOU* can start playing it. You and I both know if they did that you'd be screaming about broken mechanics and broken graphics and how the game sucks and how it's"Vanguard 2.0". You can claim otherwise all you want, but I have seen this movie more than once.
Kalok said:Mandalorian2K said:Kalok said:These same people crying that it needs to be released "now now now" even if it doesn't have all of the stuff are the same ones that cry about the "incomplete mechanics" and "incomplete artwork"on all of the streams. They're also the same ones that will scream "This is just another Vanguard" if they release it incomplete like they're crying for them to. You can deny it all you want, but your previous statements say otherwise.
This is the exact type of response that shows you have zero clue what it is we're trying to say. Nobody is saying for them to release now now now, I sure as hell aren't. My biggest beef right now is how developement of this game changed dynamics dramatically. I found out about this game before the Kickstarter even launched. I think Brad registered the domain sometime around November/December of 2013. At the beginning, this game was being marketed as a more niche game that was going to be a home for all the forgotten gamers who wanted an old school MMO experience. The development was going to be open, transparent and follow the traditional dev cycle where alpha, and beta were actual testing sessions, not early access and we were going along for the ride. This is exactly how the first few years felt. I remember the day the first stream was shown. EQNext had just been cancelled earlier that same day and Pantheon did it's first stream. The graphics were awful of course, but I sat there saying I'd play the game just like it was because I could see what it was going for. There was so much excitement that day it was palpable. Over the next couple years we had streams every couple months and it actually felt like we were part of the process for a good amount of things.
Then Asmongold and his cronies made some scathing comments about the game and it's graphics. Shortly after this, VR decided to to a complete paradigm shift in development. They were going to make alpha release like quality (exact opposite of original stated intentions) and they went dark for almost a year. The last PA was in December 2018 and PF has been talked about since June of 2018. Alpha was announced as being by end of 2018 and here it is almost Q2 of 2020 and we are still awaiting the announcement of the next PA. While information is still released, it feels more closed off. Things are kept much closer to the vest and we mostly get comments like "we're not ready to answer that" or "soon TM". I get it to a degree, but that's not the development cadence I signed up for. Pledges were made and money was taken under the guise of my first paragraph.
My point is, I think when you shift gears that far fundamentally, you do owe your long time backers something more because that's what they signed up for. Maybe take some people who are alpha backers and break them up into sections and let small pockets in each PA weekend so they can see for themselves. I'm obviously not advocating letting the masses in all at once because I know it's not ready for that, but throw them a bone. The game has just gone from seeming like it was on the very track we were told and we could see it more for ourselves, to being told it's still on track but they don't want to show us too much. I just don't buy the phrase "we don't want to ruin the whole game by showing too much", I think that's a cop out. If the zones are as big as advertised and quests are tied to perception and all this other stuff, we won't see and know everything by a landslide. As an example, the last Cohh stream in Faerthale they showed very little of Fairthale itself past the teaser trailer area. They did show Isle off, but that was a smaller open raid area. Oldwood we saw greyboxing and they barely ran in. I miss the streams like they did of the North Tusk Orc area in Avendyr's Pass. Sure all the buildings were grey boxed, but we kind of got to experience the area, feel the excitement, walk around. The making of Thronefast we toured the city and saw all those buildings grey boxed and it was awesome. It just feels weird that they aren't willing to show much except the bare minimum to keep people hanging by a thread and pledging.
For those that think they have all these zones secretly done in tandem, I have a bridge in Brooklyn and some ships in Star Citizen for sale. Granted they have probably done the initial work on other zones we haven't seen, but I'd wager that's the extent of it. All the NPCs need placed and pathed, quests added, perception added, etc. That all takes huge amounts of time and they are still working on that for just PF itself, let alone any other zones. As the phrase being floated around that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, I'd also argue that it's neither proof of completion either.
I think there's many levels of things VR could do, but to this point aren't. A cool thing that could be done is just do a flyover of a zone we haven't seen. Doesn't need to be the whole zone, but do parts of one we haven't seen. Wouldn't require getting everyone together to do a play through either. I think that would be awesome. Like I said, there's tons that could be done while still keeping plenty of things as a surprise for launch. I want to make it clear I'm not shitting on the game, calling it vaporware or any such thing. I'm just hugely disappointed that the project I signed up to be a part of feels less like it is now than it did 3 years ago. I believe that's where a lot of the angst lies. We all want to see the game come out and be the best, at least I do. I'd just like it to feel that things aren't so secretive.
I don't speak for all those who have posted their thoughts that might have been perceived as negative, but this is how I feel as someone who's followed the project since it's literal inception. I don't need anyone to tell me to take a break either lol. I could tell you to take a break also if you don't like reading comments from the opposing view. Sometimes constructive criticism can be a good thing and an overall positive, it doesn't have to mean the sky is falling and need someone to come running to the defense. However, I'm fully expecting the White Knight Rohirrim to charge me and the orcs at Helm's Deep after they read this.
Cheers
I know EXACTLY what you're saying. You're demanding that they put out a sub-par game so *YOU* can start playing it. You and I both know if they did that you'd be screaming about broken mechanics and broken graphics and how the game sucks and how it's"Vanguard 2.0". You can claim otherwise all you want, but I have seen this movie more than once.
Your lack of reading comprehension is clearly astounding. You're reading into my post what you want to fit your narrative. Please enlighten me and point out where exactly I said I want them to release a sub-par game? I'll be patiently waiting, it will probably be quite awhile because I made no such claim anywhere in that post.
Mandalorian2K said:Kalok said:Mandalorian2K said:Kalok said:These same people crying that it needs to be released "now now now" even if it doesn't have all of the stuff are the same ones that cry about the "incomplete mechanics" and "incomplete artwork"on all of the streams. They're also the same ones that will scream "This is just another Vanguard" if they release it incomplete like they're crying for them to. You can deny it all you want, but your previous statements say otherwise.
This is the exact type of response that shows you have zero clue what it is we're trying to say. Nobody is saying for them to release now now now, I sure as hell aren't. My biggest beef right now is how developement of this game changed dynamics dramatically. I found out about this game before the Kickstarter even launched. I think Brad registered the domain sometime around November/December of 2013. At the beginning, this game was being marketed as a more niche game that was going to be a home for all the forgotten gamers who wanted an old school MMO experience. The development was going to be open, transparent and follow the traditional dev cycle where alpha, and beta were actual testing sessions, not early access and we were going along for the ride. This is exactly how the first few years felt. I remember the day the first stream was shown. EQNext had just been cancelled earlier that same day and Pantheon did it's first stream. The graphics were awful of course, but I sat there saying I'd play the game just like it was because I could see what it was going for. There was so much excitement that day it was palpable. Over the next couple years we had streams every couple months and it actually felt like we were part of the process for a good amount of things.
Then Asmongold and his cronies made some scathing comments about the game and it's graphics. Shortly after this, VR decided to to a complete paradigm shift in development. They were going to make alpha release like quality (exact opposite of original stated intentions) and they went dark for almost a year. The last PA was in December 2018 and PF has been talked about since June of 2018. Alpha was announced as being by end of 2018 and here it is almost Q2 of 2020 and we are still awaiting the announcement of the next PA. While information is still released, it feels more closed off. Things are kept much closer to the vest and we mostly get comments like "we're not ready to answer that" or "soon TM". I get it to a degree, but that's not the development cadence I signed up for. Pledges were made and money was taken under the guise of my first paragraph.
My point is, I think when you shift gears that far fundamentally, you do owe your long time backers something more because that's what they signed up for. Maybe take some people who are alpha backers and break them up into sections and let small pockets in each PA weekend so they can see for themselves. I'm obviously not advocating letting the masses in all at once because I know it's not ready for that, but throw them a bone. The game has just gone from seeming like it was on the very track we were told and we could see it more for ourselves, to being told it's still on track but they don't want to show us too much. I just don't buy the phrase "we don't want to ruin the whole game by showing too much", I think that's a cop out. If the zones are as big as advertised and quests are tied to perception and all this other stuff, we won't see and know everything by a landslide. As an example, the last Cohh stream in Faerthale they showed very little of Fairthale itself past the teaser trailer area. They did show Isle off, but that was a smaller open raid area. Oldwood we saw greyboxing and they barely ran in. I miss the streams like they did of the North Tusk Orc area in Avendyr's Pass. Sure all the buildings were grey boxed, but we kind of got to experience the area, feel the excitement, walk around. The making of Thronefast we toured the city and saw all those buildings grey boxed and it was awesome. It just feels weird that they aren't willing to show much except the bare minimum to keep people hanging by a thread and pledging.
For those that think they have all these zones secretly done in tandem, I have a bridge in Brooklyn and some ships in Star Citizen for sale. Granted they have probably done the initial work on other zones we haven't seen, but I'd wager that's the extent of it. All the NPCs need placed and pathed, quests added, perception added, etc. That all takes huge amounts of time and they are still working on that for just PF itself, let alone any other zones. As the phrase being floated around that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, I'd also argue that it's neither proof of completion either.
I think there's many levels of things VR could do, but to this point aren't. A cool thing that could be done is just do a flyover of a zone we haven't seen. Doesn't need to be the whole zone, but do parts of one we haven't seen. Wouldn't require getting everyone together to do a play through either. I think that would be awesome. Like I said, there's tons that could be done while still keeping plenty of things as a surprise for launch. I want to make it clear I'm not shitting on the game, calling it vaporware or any such thing. I'm just hugely disappointed that the project I signed up to be a part of feels less like it is now than it did 3 years ago. I believe that's where a lot of the angst lies. We all want to see the game come out and be the best, at least I do. I'd just like it to feel that things aren't so secretive.
I don't speak for all those who have posted their thoughts that might have been perceived as negative, but this is how I feel as someone who's followed the project since it's literal inception. I don't need anyone to tell me to take a break either lol. I could tell you to take a break also if you don't like reading comments from the opposing view. Sometimes constructive criticism can be a good thing and an overall positive, it doesn't have to mean the sky is falling and need someone to come running to the defense. However, I'm fully expecting the White Knight Rohirrim to charge me and the orcs at Helm's Deep after they read this.
Cheers
I know EXACTLY what you're saying. You're demanding that they put out a sub-par game so *YOU* can start playing it. You and I both know if they did that you'd be screaming about broken mechanics and broken graphics and how the game sucks and how it's"Vanguard 2.0". You can claim otherwise all you want, but I have seen this movie more than once.
Your lack of reading comprehension is clearly astounding. You're reading into my post what you want to fit your narrative. Please enlighten me and point out where exactly I said I want them to release a sub-par game? I'll be patiently waiting, it will probably be quite awhile because I made no such claim anywhere in that post.
Sure you did. Your complaints about what they're NOT doing and using Asmongold's comments to support your statement says it all. Nice try though. For the record, Asmongold isn't the gold standard of MMO players. Ironic how he loved the **** out of it when he was playing it for the stream, and then immediately started trashing it, isn't it? It's really obvious that he doesn't understand the concepts of how game development works, then you come along and hinge your entire argument on his faulty logic.
Kalok said:Mandalorian2K said:Kalok said:Mandalorian2K said:Kalok said:These same people crying that it needs to be released "now now now" even if it doesn't have all of the stuff are the same ones that cry about the "incomplete mechanics" and "incomplete artwork"on all of the streams. They're also the same ones that will scream "This is just another Vanguard" if they release it incomplete like they're crying for them to. You can deny it all you want, but your previous statements say otherwise.
This is the exact type of response that shows you have zero clue what it is we're trying to say. Nobody is saying for them to release now now now, I sure as hell aren't. My biggest beef right now is how developement of this game changed dynamics dramatically. I found out about this game before the Kickstarter even launched. I think Brad registered the domain sometime around November/December of 2013. At the beginning, this game was being marketed as a more niche game that was going to be a home for all the forgotten gamers who wanted an old school MMO experience. The development was going to be open, transparent and follow the traditional dev cycle where alpha, and beta were actual testing sessions, not early access and we were going along for the ride. This is exactly how the first few years felt. I remember the day the first stream was shown. EQNext had just been cancelled earlier that same day and Pantheon did it's first stream. The graphics were awful of course, but I sat there saying I'd play the game just like it was because I could see what it was going for. There was so much excitement that day it was palpable. Over the next couple years we had streams every couple months and it actually felt like we were part of the process for a good amount of things.
Then Asmongold and his cronies made some scathing comments about the game and it's graphics. Shortly after this, VR decided to to a complete paradigm shift in development. They were going to make alpha release like quality (exact opposite of original stated intentions) and they went dark for almost a year. The last PA was in December 2018 and PF has been talked about since June of 2018. Alpha was announced as being by end of 2018 and here it is almost Q2 of 2020 and we are still awaiting the announcement of the next PA. While information is still released, it feels more closed off. Things are kept much closer to the vest and we mostly get comments like "we're not ready to answer that" or "soon TM". I get it to a degree, but that's not the development cadence I signed up for. Pledges were made and money was taken under the guise of my first paragraph.
My point is, I think when you shift gears that far fundamentally, you do owe your long time backers something more because that's what they signed up for. Maybe take some people who are alpha backers and break them up into sections and let small pockets in each PA weekend so they can see for themselves. I'm obviously not advocating letting the masses in all at once because I know it's not ready for that, but throw them a bone. The game has just gone from seeming like it was on the very track we were told and we could see it more for ourselves, to being told it's still on track but they don't want to show us too much. I just don't buy the phrase "we don't want to ruin the whole game by showing too much", I think that's a cop out. If the zones are as big as advertised and quests are tied to perception and all this other stuff, we won't see and know everything by a landslide. As an example, the last Cohh stream in Faerthale they showed very little of Fairthale itself past the teaser trailer area. They did show Isle off, but that was a smaller open raid area. Oldwood we saw greyboxing and they barely ran in. I miss the streams like they did of the North Tusk Orc area in Avendyr's Pass. Sure all the buildings were grey boxed, but we kind of got to experience the area, feel the excitement, walk around. The making of Thronefast we toured the city and saw all those buildings grey boxed and it was awesome. It just feels weird that they aren't willing to show much except the bare minimum to keep people hanging by a thread and pledging.
For those that think they have all these zones secretly done in tandem, I have a bridge in Brooklyn and some ships in Star Citizen for sale. Granted they have probably done the initial work on other zones we haven't seen, but I'd wager that's the extent of it. All the NPCs need placed and pathed, quests added, perception added, etc. That all takes huge amounts of time and they are still working on that for just PF itself, let alone any other zones. As the phrase being floated around that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, I'd also argue that it's neither proof of completion either.
I think there's many levels of things VR could do, but to this point aren't. A cool thing that could be done is just do a flyover of a zone we haven't seen. Doesn't need to be the whole zone, but do parts of one we haven't seen. Wouldn't require getting everyone together to do a play through either. I think that would be awesome. Like I said, there's tons that could be done while still keeping plenty of things as a surprise for launch. I want to make it clear I'm not shitting on the game, calling it vaporware or any such thing. I'm just hugely disappointed that the project I signed up to be a part of feels less like it is now than it did 3 years ago. I believe that's where a lot of the angst lies. We all want to see the game come out and be the best, at least I do. I'd just like it to feel that things aren't so secretive.
I don't speak for all those who have posted their thoughts that might have been perceived as negative, but this is how I feel as someone who's followed the project since it's literal inception. I don't need anyone to tell me to take a break either lol. I could tell you to take a break also if you don't like reading comments from the opposing view. Sometimes constructive criticism can be a good thing and an overall positive, it doesn't have to mean the sky is falling and need someone to come running to the defense. However, I'm fully expecting the White Knight Rohirrim to charge me and the orcs at Helm's Deep after they read this.
Cheers
I know EXACTLY what you're saying. You're demanding that they put out a sub-par game so *YOU* can start playing it. You and I both know if they did that you'd be screaming about broken mechanics and broken graphics and how the game sucks and how it's"Vanguard 2.0". You can claim otherwise all you want, but I have seen this movie more than once.
Your lack of reading comprehension is clearly astounding. You're reading into my post what you want to fit your narrative. Please enlighten me and point out where exactly I said I want them to release a sub-par game? I'll be patiently waiting, it will probably be quite awhile because I made no such claim anywhere in that post.
Sure you did. Your complaints about what they're NOT doing and using Asmongold's comments to support your statement says it all. Nice try though. For the record, Asmongold isn't the gold standard of MMO players. Ironic how he loved the **** out of it when he was playing it for the stream, and then immediately started trashing it, isn't it? It's really obvious that he doesn't understand the concepts of how game development works, then you come along and hinge your entire argument on his faulty logic.
LMAO! VR are the one's who completely changed their development cycle because of him, NOT me. And I'm completely aware that Asmongold is a tool. That's why I'm upset that they changed what they were doing because of him. They were doing a traditional dev cycle prior to the backlash. Tell me what traditional dev cycle makes something release quality before alpha? You are completely cluess and making yourself look like a fool. I won't waste anymore time or energy trying to explain this simple concept to you. You still provided no proof of me saying I wanted a sub-par product to release. Classic
We all know how to scroll up so no real need to copy the same 5-10 paragraphs to give another three line response.
Can we get back to the topic instead of attacking eachother's posts. This is a development forum for ideas about the game and its development - not a contest to prove who can write better or who has a better command of insults and attacks.
Thanks.
znushu said:They also don't need to use a Streamer like Cohh or whatever to show off the current state of the game (which lets face it, they HAVE been using Cohh alot to showcase the progress instead of, you know, just showing it themselves). I mean it's not like he works for them or whatever, he's just one of their backers after all. What they should be doing is instead releasing updates on the game through their own channels, whether that be through their Developer Diaries: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/news/blog/ or their youtube channel or both.
I just want to be informed about the game I backed and not have to go through a third party to get information on the state of the product, which having to go through Cohh is exactly that.
I'd like to give you a couple facts that you may not be aware of. First, Cohh has over 1.2 MILLION followers. Pantheon's Twitch channel has 8 thousand. That's about 150 times more. It's very likely that more total people get exposed to Pantheon by being on Cohh's channel than from all the social media accounts that VR has - PLUS this forum.
Every video available about Pantheon is hosted on either Twitch or Youtube because it's much more labor & money efficient for VR to use already existing video hosting sites rather than building that capacity for Pantheonmmo.com. Twitch and Youtube are already '3rd party' sites, whether it is VR's Twitch channel or Cohh's.
Consider for a moment whether you really would like VR to stop using the single biggest FREE advertising method they currently have available to them when you encourge them to not use Cohh.
Jothany said:I'd like to give you a couple facts that you may not be aware of. First, Cohh has over 1.2 MILLION followers. Pantheon's Twitch channel has 8 thousand. That's about 150 times more. It's very likely that more total people get exposed to Pantheon by being on Cohh's channel than from all the social media accounts that VR has - PLUS this forum.
Every video available about Pantheon is hosted on either Twitch or Youtube because it's much more labor & money efficient for VR to use already existing video hosting sites rather than building that capacity for Pantheonmmo.com. Twitch and Youtube are already '3rd party' sites, whether it is VR's Twitch channel or Cohh's.
Consider for a moment whether you really would like VR to stop using the single biggest FREE advertising method they currently have available to them when you encourge them to not use Cohh.
I would love for them to stop using Cohh personally, or if they want to continue using him tell him that during these streams he needs to turn off his face overlay and actually pay attention to what the dev's are doing and trying to show in the stream that they are letting him play. Also the post you quoted specifically states they should use their youtube, so no idea where you are getting the poster said otherwise. However it's not hard at all to embed a video to a webpage - we've been doing it since the 90's.
Nailuj said: Also the post you quoted specifically states they should use their youtube, so no idea where you are getting the poster said otherwise.
Since I never claimed that the poster said otherwise, or suggested that VR shouldn't use youtube, I have no idea what you are claiming I said.
Nailuj said: However it's not hard at all to embed a video to a webpage - we've been doing it since the 90's.
Yes, WE have been doing it since the 90's. Unfortunately, embedding videos in a webpage has nothing to do with anything I was talking about or referring to.
To use a famous quote, "Now what we have here is a failure to communicate" :)
I don't really want to rewrite the whole post, so maybe if you tell me what it sounded like I was saying to you, I'd be happy to try to make my point clearer.
Joppa speaks to this issue somewhat (and many other interesting things) in the recent PantheonPlusYou show here https://www.twitch.tv/videos/566260674 for those interesting in what the devs say rather than inventing depressing theories.
Jothany said:Nailuj said: Also the post you quoted specifically states they should use their youtube, so no idea where you are getting the poster said otherwise.Since I never claimed that the poster said otherwise, or suggested that VR shouldn't use youtube, I have no idea what you are claiming I said.
Nailuj said: However it's not hard at all to embed a video to a webpage - we've been doing it since the 90's.Yes, WE have been doing it since the 90's. Unfortunately, embedding videos in a webpage has nothing to do with anything I was talking about or referring to.
To use a famous quote, "Now what we have here is a failure to communicate" :)
I don't really want to rewrite the whole post, so maybe if you tell me what it sounded like I was saying to you, I'd be happy to try to make my point clearer.
Every video available about Pantheon is hosted on either Twitch or Youtube because it's much more labor & money efficient for VR to use already existing video hosting sites rather than building that capacity for Pantheonmmo.com. Twitch and Youtube are already '3rd party' sites, whether it is VR's Twitch channel or Cohh's.
This paragraph right here says that its not really feaible for them to host videos on this site and that they should just use youtube / twitch instead, whereas the original post you were replying to already said they should continue using their youtube.
Nailuj said:Every video available about Pantheon is hosted on either Twitch or Youtube because it's much more labor & money efficient for VR to use already existing video hosting sites rather than building that capacity for Pantheonmmo.com. Twitch and Youtube are already '3rd party' sites, whether it is VR's Twitch channel or Cohh's.
This paragraph right here says that its not really feaible for them to host videos on this site and that they should just use youtube / twitch instead, whereas the original post you were replying to already said they should continue using their youtube.
Now we're making progress :) This paragraph you quote right here was in response to Znushu's statement:
znushu said: I just want to be informed about the game I backed and not have to go through a third party to get information on the state of the product, which having to go through Cohh is exactly that.
I was pointing out that going to either Twitch or Youtube is already going to a 3rd party site for game info.
Becides the long wall of text quotes... making the thread easy to follow is very difficult.
If the devs ever showcase Asmondgold, i walk. It just means to me they dont care about quality but quanity.
This community does not deserve the Toxic behaviour he brings, and anything out of his mouth is just stupid.
I like Coh, i guess. But it is always coh. i get he has a large audience and its massively free publicity and advertising
BUT it would be nice to see actual youtubers/streamers who consistanntly, feature, theory craft and support the game, weekly, or daily even not just the live release events like Coh. I mean names like NathanNaplm, and Bazgrim. I mean these dudes, these Pantheon paragons are doing the lords work. Invite them too these live streams too, 5 person partys? Coh, Baz and Nathan, 2 devs, do you really need 4 Devs??
Just my thoughts, amd wishes.
I am too, baffled, four years later? why they're still trying too hard. The game is done and we're SOLD. You guys don't need to make it complicated it on yourself. Leave all that to an expansion. Do an early access if you fear first impressions. Like Cohh said just make the zones, provide the content.. leave those quests, graphics detail, extra systems like climbing...etc away. Make The Game.
Are they listening though?
I'm willing to throw $10,000 on the game if VR promise to just finish the game already - as is - and start producing zones/content and launch an early access.
All what I need is to group up with other people, killing monsters, gaining xp, camping a boss' ass to get ph4t l00t.
I don't post very often, as I'm a patient guy, and just like to see what the team is up to.
So, I will say that development is moving at a glacial crawl. Is that bad or good? Not sure yet. Everyone seems to be saying 'Quality over Quantity', but I think the real issue we should be focusing on is - Balance. What I mean is that the quality is obviously there. But, is it too much for how long development is taking? I'd say, yes. Yes it is. However, you have a massive community of folks willing to help showcase things, and a couple massive fans of the game with YouTube channels.
Sure, they're not as big as Cohh, but I think I'd rather watch a stream with some one like Bazgrim playing rathert than Cohh. Why? Because Baz's excitment and positivity for the game are palpable. This transfers to those watching, and those watching aren't watching because we aren't interested. I think more fan channels need to be included in future gameplay and exploration streams. And besides, I'm pretty sure Baz will have a better idea of how to play than Cohh. Just sayin'.
Secondly, that website. Guys. Seriously.
With such a massive community that's willing to help promote and market your game, why is VR not recruiting folks to help with simple things like the web page? Sure, it's volunteer work, but I'm almost certain that there's some one in this community that could at least help a little with that. I mean, when was the website last updated? It's in need of, at the very least, some more current information.
I like Cohh's streams, but I'd rather see one of the true fans get in there and show us what's what. It'd be way more exciting for both them, and the community.