Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

resurection sickness

    • 87 posts
    February 8, 2020 7:23 AM PST

    so we have 4 rez classes and we know they will have equall rez experience but what will the rez sickness be(attleast i havent heard any news about it). so what hardship should heroes have after death ?

    i guess the normal route should be some sort off weakend state where your stats are reduce for x time,but could we have other effects like a weaken effect on move speed (i would be kinda stiff after death i guess) or perhaps you will be automatic burden for some time.maybe you have a hard time focus and mana/resource/stamina regeneration will be lower.

    and for the masochist a exp penalty for y amount of time ( it should make people fear death and upsett the exp gain from rez unless you wait out the effect)

    And this makes a interesting point should all rez classes have the same penalties or class different.or will the effect be somewhat random for flavor or perhaps multiple effects.

    This is ofcourse just theorycrafting but it would be interesting how everyone would envision death penalty.

    • 2756 posts
    February 8, 2020 9:33 AM PST

    It is an interesting question, but I'm pertty sure it was discussed quite recently. I know the search function isn't great, but you might be able to find it.

    • 1273 posts
    February 8, 2020 9:34 AM PST

    This game will already have some of the harshest death penalties out there.  I'm not so sure adding more would be a great thing. I do like most of your ideas, but not in addition to what we already have.  It might be cool to have different death penalties for different situations, or maybe a random death penalty or something.  I'm pretty sure the higher level cleric rez's will lesson the death penalties, so they've already considered that not all rez classes will have the same rez effects.

    • 238 posts
    February 8, 2020 10:34 AM PST

    Under the classes, clerics are the only one stated to have rez that restores the experience. The paladin and shaman rezes appear to be the only ones usable in combat provided certain conditions are met. The shaman's rez doesn't return experience and when used outside of combat it causes rez sickness (it can only be used in combat if the shaman dies). Likewise, the paladin can sacrifice 1/2 of their hp to rez a person in combat if they have at least 2 reckoning points this makes them immune from all healing for a set duration. The druid has no rez listed even though they are one of the healers. I recall no mention of plans to cause all rezes to restore the same amount of experience, however, I do think that all healers should have resurrection capabilities.

    **** I will also say we don't have any clue as to how ability modifications will affect rezes/ rezes of the various classes. These modifications could change exp returns, sickness duration, cast times, the number of people affected by rez, combat resizing ability and maybe even provide stat reductions to rez sickness for its duration. These modifications could also lead to changes in class viability and desirability in certain situations. 

    I think that if there are going to be rezes that restore exp then should be a trade-off between the efficiency of the rez and the downtime afterward. For example, if the cleric has rez that restores 90% exp loss then the downside is they have longer rez sickness period (maybe 6-7 minutes). However, if a shaman gets rez that only restores 70% experience maybe their rez effect only lasts 3-4 minutes. In this situation, there is a trade-off between efficiency and downtime. I believe that this tradeoff is a good thing because some people may not want the downtime that comes with the more efficient rez. I think that this would allow for other healers to maintain rez viability and even be sought base on their class in certain situations. 

    I don't think that there should be different versions of the actual rez effects unless experience returns are homogenized between all rezes. If homogenization is the case then I could see a different version of rez effects being implemented to maintain class viability and difference. On the subject randomness related to rez effects I am also against this. I don't think elements of RNG are good in death mechanics as they can drastically screw some people while trivializing the experience for others. I think that a player should know what they are getting into when they die and this experience should be uniform so the risks of death and unprepared combat are understood. 

    On the same topic of resurrection sickness, I think that any corpse summoning ability should also come with resurrection sickness.


    This post was edited by Baldur at February 8, 2020 11:41 AM PST
    • 888 posts
    February 12, 2020 11:34 AM PST
    My ideas for how to give each class a fun, interesting, flavorful rez.

    Cleric:
    A divine, translucent angel image should fly down into the body and it should get back up. The character should glow with divine light and be temporarily under divine protection. Or, if we have different deities, the animating "angel" should be specific to the cleric's deity. Any enemies that damage the character while it's still under divine intervention become temporarily blinded and take damage.

    Druid:
    Rez Tree: Cast a tree that lasts for 30 seconds. It provides an AoE heal and any players that die within range of it will be absorbed into it and rez'd after a moderate delay. This would make for some very interesting tactics, including allowing the druid to rez himself if he knows he's going down. Visually, the tree will form a chrysalis, which breaks open and out emerges the rez'd player (coated in ichor or flowers). Rez'd characters are still weak but recover faster if near the tree.

    Shaman:
    A death totem is placed on the fallen ally, creating an area of sacred land that has a DoT effect on enemies. The dead player rises as a noncoporeal spirit that can't give or receive damage (and can even pass through enemies) after a few seconds, the effect fades and the rez'd player starts being able to take and receive damage (a little at first, but it quickly returns to normal). If the character dies again before the effect ends, the body drops and the spirit flies off.

    Paladin:
    The rez'd player gets life linked to the Paladin. If the rez'd player dies again (while still rez sick), the Paladin also dies. The paladin takes damage to cast the rez, so in some situations, the paladin will actually be sacrificing himself.

    Necromancer:
    Fallen player needs to be within close range of a defeated enemy. The more bodies near by, the stronger the player comes back. Also, there should be a random chance of reviving with a temporary buff / ability that the defeated enemy had. The revived player will have visible "Frankenstein's Monster" scars until healed by a cleric. This really sells the flavor of necromancy.
    • 2419 posts
    February 13, 2020 8:17 AM PST

    Awhile back, once I learned that the intent was that all 3 priest classes would have the ability to resurrect, I kept in mind that as priests they should do things equaly well but by different means.   Resurrection, and the effects of that would be no different.

    The Cleric, the master of life and death, would pass on no resurrection effects and the resurrected would return with 75% health, mana and stamina.

    The Shaman, on the hand, would pass on some resurrection effects (stats reduced 40% for, say, 2 minutes) and the resurrected would return with 100% health, 75% stamina but 25% mana.  The Shaman, as I see it, is more attuned to the physical (health) than the mental (mana).

    The Druid, like the Shaman, would pass on resurrection effects (stats reduced 40% for, again, 2 minutes) but the resurrected would return with 25% health, 75% stamina but 100% mana, being more tuned to the mental (mana) than the physical (health).

    You'll notice I did not speak to the resurrections returning any XP, and I did that on purpose because I really want to see each of them return the same amount be that 10%, 50% or even none at all. 

    In all situations the Cleric has the upperhand, slightly, in that someone resurrected can return to the fight that much quicker with good health, stamina and mana.  But for a melee heavy group, the Shaman is a very strong contender bringing you back with full health and full stamina.  Your caster heavy group sees a benefit with a Druid.

    • 87 posts
    February 13, 2020 9:38 AM PST

    Vandraad said:

    Awhile back, once I learned that the intent was that all 3 priest classes would have the ability to resurrect, I kept in mind that as priests they should do things equaly well but by different means.   Resurrection, and the effects of that would be no different.

    The Cleric, the master of life and death, would pass on no resurrection effects and the resurrected would return with 75% health, mana and stamina.

    The Shaman, on the hand, would pass on some resurrection effects (stats reduced 40% for, say, 2 minutes) and the resurrected would return with 100% health, 75% stamina but 25% mana.  The Shaman, as I see it, is more attuned to the physical (health) than the mental (mana).

    The Druid, like the Shaman, would pass on resurrection effects (stats reduced 40% for, again, 2 minutes) but the resurrected would return with 25% health, 75% stamina but 100% mana, being more tuned to the mental (mana) than the physical (health).

    You'll notice I did not speak to the resurrections returning any XP, and I did that on purpose because I really want to see each of them return the same amount be that 10%, 50% or even none at all. 

    In all situations the Cleric has the upperhand, slightly, in that someone resurrected can return to the fight that much quicker with good health, stamina and mana.  But for a melee heavy group, the Shaman is a very strong contender bringing you back with full health and full stamina.  Your caster heavy group sees a benefit with a Druid.

    Interesting take and some interesting diference and we must not forget the paladin who is also a rez class

    on a sidnote i dident brought exp return because i am almost 100% sure it will be for all 4 rez classes equall

    • 2419 posts
    February 13, 2020 9:54 AM PST

    Aqua said:

    Interesting take and some interesting diference and we must not forget the paladin who is also a rez class

    I left out the Paladin on purpose as I'm against it have a rez.  But, if it absolutely will have one, make it similar to the Cleric but 50% across the board.  Still good, but not as good as a cleric because the Paladin is not a full Cleric.

    • 159 posts
    February 13, 2020 6:34 PM PST

    I don't count the Druid as having a rez with what information we have now.

    As for Rez sickness. I say maybe a reduction in HP until it wears off. Maybe a reduction in resource gain also until it wears off.

    I don't want to see a movement or armor penalty myself.

    I do feel like clerics need to have the best combat and exp rez in the game. I want to see the shaman and the druid get both a combat & exp rez. Just not as good as the cleric. 

    The penalty on the Paladins rez to me is on point. Paladin should not get a combat rez.( at first anyways. Maybe after the first expansion give them one) I do want to see them get an exp rez out of combat. So it would be more fair for the healer in the group. I'm sure the only time a Paladin needs to rez is when the group healer goes down and the group healer should be able to get some exp back also IMHO.

    • 67 posts
    February 14, 2020 12:41 AM PST

    I see some risk in the return of so much mana directly after rez. 75% is a lot for a wizard for example, and this can be exploited as a fast mana regain. Just an example to make my point: 

    During a fight, the wizard is nearly oom, so he burns all his left mana to get aggro and die. Now the cleric can rez him for lets say 50% of his mana, restoring 75% of the wizards mana, so he can directly nuke again. 

    Or a cleric will rez another cleric that was oom and died on purpose. Cleric 1 loses 50% but cleric 2 is now at 75% again. They can repeat this forever ;)

    Long story short: I think this will open the door to some exploits. 

    • 1921 posts
    February 14, 2020 8:09 AM PST

    Kind of surprised a new thread was permitted, given the recent ... lively discussions on the topic.
    Personally, I would prefer all priest classes get the same rez, so that it's not used as a negative choice for class use in grouping up.
    Also, at max level, an additional unavoidable stacking debuff is going to be required, otherwise max-level death+rez will likely be as meaningless as it is/was in EQ1.