Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

"New Class" and Game Demo

    • 47 posts
    November 9, 2019 10:23 PM PST

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoFAaY5LLc8

    I just wanted to touch on some things from the recent Faerthale teaser stream that I have not seen anyone mention.  I thought they were pretty huge slips; but for some reason, no one has been talking about them.  Maybe I misunderstood them and I'm the one that is over thinking them.  But I suppose discussion here will determine that.

    At 43:22 a question is brought up reference the perception system in groups.  Mr. Perkins begins addressing it and a few moments later addresses the perception system having levels.  Then the bomb shell is dropped.  He talks about a visionary or a sage.  From my understanding of what he is saying this would be a title.  However, what does this mean in terms of ability.  Only the ability to discover the world?  Or would an Enchanter become a Visionary; or a Wizard become a Sage?  I just find it... different... that a Warrior could have the title of Sage or whatever the title ends up being - if it's just a title.  Could it be that all we've been shown is a base class that will branch into subsets once you begin leveling your "keeper"?

    At around 31:20, during Jared's video - when he's talking about the mechanism of the perception system - he states "when you see Project Faerthale demo".  Coh picks up on it right away.  He gets all wide-eyed.  However, nothing is ever brought up on this again.  I know this was filmed prior to the release of the teaser, so perhaps this is what he was talking about; but then why not call it a teaser - why call it a demo?  Also, during the teaser, there is no gameplay footage, which Jared would have known most likely.  So I find it hard to believe he was referencing the teaser.  Thoughts?

    • 1860 posts
    November 9, 2019 10:34 PM PST
    Chris mentions there will be levels of perception with titles associated with how high your perception skill is for bragging rights.
    We have to take what he said at face value and think it will only be for bragging rights and nothing more.
    I guess if you are someone who is into earning titles that could be big news /shrug.
    • 47 posts
    November 9, 2019 10:37 PM PST

    philo said: Chris mentions there will be levels of perception with titles associated with how high your perception skill is for bragging rights. We have to take what he said at face value and think it will only be for bragging rights and nothing more. I guess if you are someone who is into earning titles that could be big news /shrug.

    But being a keeper is a huge part of the game - and isn't the perception system tied into the "keeper" system?  When asked about the pros/cons - there were no cons listed.  The only thing mentioned were pros.  


    This post was edited by Talint at November 9, 2019 10:39 PM PST
    • 1860 posts
    November 9, 2019 10:49 PM PST

    Ya, that has been a question that they can't really answer. There are no cons. The comparison is crafting but the cons of crafting are a large money sink and the time it takes to gather resources to raise your skill. There will likely be some time involved with increasing your skill within the perception system but we havent heard anything about a money sink like crafting.

    That question  has been asked repeatedly and I havent ever heard a reason why anyone would choose to not be a keeper. It will just be something that everyone does the way that I understand it...whether they choose to max the skills or not. Everyone will basically become a keeper.

    ...Unless being a keeper is instead of choosing a crafting ability...but there has never been any statements that make it sound like that will be the case. As far as we know becoming a keeper is separate from choosing a crafting profession.

    I dont know why they even give people the choice to not become a keeper?

    I guess the con of becoming a keeper is having pop ups on your screen when you might not want them...


    This post was edited by philo at November 9, 2019 10:54 PM PST
    • 47 posts
    November 9, 2019 10:54 PM PST

    philo said:

    Ya, that has been a question that they can't really answer. There are no cons. The comparison is crafting but the cons of crafting are a large money sink and the time it takes to gather resources to raise your skill. There will likely be some time involved with increasing your skill within the perception system but we havent heard anything about a money sink like crafting.

    That question  has been asked repeatedly and I havent ever heard a reason why anyone would choose to not be a keeper. It will just be something that everyone does the way that I understand it...whether they choose to max the skills or not. Everyone will basically become a keeper.

    ...Unless being a keeper is instead of choosing a crafting ability...but there has never been any statements that make it sound like that will be the case. As far as we know becoming a keeper is separate from choosing a crafting profession.

     

    From the sounds of it; being a keeper is the story.  I know this is more of a sandbox then a themepark - but I'm sure there is still some form of story.  Progressing your character up through the levels, becoming a keeper, and progressing that "fate."  If you're not a keeper, then you don't get to experience most of the game.  You'll miss out on all of the - my brain isn't working right now - popups.  The random events that happen when you come across them.

    • 1860 posts
    November 9, 2019 10:58 PM PST

    Ya, you got it.  Avoiding pop ups is the only benefit of choosing not to be a keeper...but you miss out on quests etc.  Its not really a choice.

    • 1860 posts
    November 9, 2019 10:58 PM PST

    Double post


    This post was edited by philo at November 9, 2019 10:59 PM PST
    • 47 posts
    November 9, 2019 11:02 PM PST

    Exactly.  It's not really a choice - which is why I believe Mr. Perkin's saying what he did was a slip of sorts.

    • 1860 posts
    November 9, 2019 11:10 PM PST

    I think you are making something out of nothing.  It has been made very clear that they dont want there to be multiple paths within a class.


    This post was edited by philo at November 9, 2019 11:10 PM PST
    • 47 posts
    November 9, 2019 11:12 PM PST

    So you think a Warrior will be called a Sage?  Or a Rogue a Visionary?

    • 1860 posts
    November 9, 2019 11:13 PM PST

    Its a title for reaching a certain lvl within the perception system...for bragging rights...as was talked about.

    • 47 posts
    November 9, 2019 11:14 PM PST

    Right.  So the title of the Warrior would be Sage "Name Here".

    EDIT:  I'm of the mind too that there will not be class subsets.  But why is it so far-fetched to think a Wizard could turn into a Sage and have access to more.


    This post was edited by Talint at November 9, 2019 11:15 PM PST
    • 1860 posts
    November 9, 2019 11:15 PM PST

    Ya 

    • 47 posts
    November 9, 2019 11:18 PM PST

    philo said:

    Ya 

    That just doesn't make any logical sense to me.  But we're all entitled to our opinions. 

     

    EDIT:  Also, I guess I didn't mean subset of classes in terms of multiple classes per class; but more - a "higher" being of a class.  Wizard becoming a Sage.


    This post was edited by Talint at November 10, 2019 1:44 AM PST
    • 1 posts
    November 10, 2019 2:09 AM PST

    keeper, visionary, sage all sounding like title of someone with great knowledge, a wizard at higher rank could be many things, channeler, evoker etc,

    I mean who are we to say a warrior can't read or gain knowledge from a scroll or tome, so personally I don't see anything odd here

    • 500 posts
    November 10, 2019 4:11 AM PST

    Perico74 said:

    keeper, visionary, sage all sounding like title of someone with great knowledge, a wizard at higher rank could be many things, channeler, evoker etc,

    I mean who are we to say a warrior can't read or gain knowledge from a scroll or tome, so personally I don't see anything odd here

    I Agree with Perico's position, and I believe you are way over thinking this @Talint. It seems simple enough (to me anyway) that the Keeper titles are just designators as to the level of expertice attained as a Keeper, and has naught to do with any specific class abilities.  We don't have nearly enough information currently to really make a definitive determination at this point.  Just my 2cp.

    • 2756 posts
    November 10, 2019 4:38 AM PST

    It didn't sound to me like characters would be known primarily by their Keeper ability level or that different classes would be known differently.

    It sounded to me like different Keeper 'levels' would be known as different things, so someone as low Keeper ability might be a Seeker and someone who's an experienced Keeper might be a Sage, no matter their class.

    It also sounded to me like different levels of Keeper would be able to take part in different lore-based content, so it would be used as a kind of 'keying' system or 'acclimation' system but connected to perception and lore.  Jared later, when showing off the UI, showed dialogs and Joppa said, of them, the one on the right is what everyone sees, the basic NPC/encounter info, the one on the left was what a Keeper might see if their passive Perception or active Investigate meets a trigger point and you can pursue a Storyline with branching dialogs as you explore your senses and investigate further or whatever (I'm paraphrasing and interpreting there).

    So, you might, for some content, see groups when looking for others, saying "Looking for 1 tank and 1 DPS level 20 to do a Keeper level 6 encounter. We have a Sage (level 10 Keeper), so you need only be Keeper level 3" or "LF2M level 20 for Elder Spriggan encounter. We have a Sage so will be doing the Storyline extra content" depending on how it all works for groups of Keepers of different levels mixed with non-keepers.

    So there would be some bragging rights and desirability to be a high level Keeper as it would enable you to encounter storylines that others can't and/or might also mean you can help others Perceive those encounters.

    As for the "Faerthale demo", the way I heard it that sounded like a future video/stream and had my eyes opening too.  He suggested we will see more of the Insight Stone and the Perception system, so that's definitely not describing the teaser vid.  Perhaps they will demo Faerthale before PA5 let's the VIPs play it.  Perhaps it will just be part of one of the bi-weekly newsletter videos.  Fine with me.


    This post was edited by disposalist at November 10, 2019 4:45 AM PST
    • 3852 posts
    November 10, 2019 6:38 AM PST

    We are all overthinking things and focusing on trivia - for lack of anything much more significant. Nothing new in this.

    My own totally uninformed guess is that we may, or may not, wind up with a trilogy somewhat reminiscent of Vanguard where there were separate and theoretically unrealted systems for adventuring, crafting and diplomacy. Pantheon may wind up with adventuring, crafting and keeper,

    • 139 posts
    November 10, 2019 8:00 AM PST

    idk it sounds like Keeping is an extension of adventuring. Does it need to be its own thing? Perhaps you could say there is: Combat level, Crafting level and adventuring (keeper) Level. Just call it adventuring so much easier to understand. 

    • 273 posts
    November 10, 2019 9:00 AM PST

    It's pretty obvious that what they were referencing (Keeper, Visionary, Sage) are just different levels of the Perception system. I think disposalist there is spot on with their analysis of how it works (or will work) in game.

    With the story charts they showed, the reasonable assumption is the Perception level determines what paths in the charts you will be able to access. It's a pretty nice solution for adding structure to non-linear storytelling.


    This post was edited by eunichron at November 10, 2019 9:06 AM PST
    • 53 posts
    November 10, 2019 9:28 AM PST
    It seems that the Perception system is being mentioned in the last steam as being similar to the Crafting system. So why not combine them and make being Keeper a Crafting talent? Thus, people could use their Crafting slot(s) to choose to be a Keeper, or Blacksmith, or Alchemist... Therefore, the choice to be a Keeper would be at the expense of some other Crafting skill.
    • 47 posts
    November 10, 2019 1:58 PM PST

    I'm not disagreeing with anyone.  I haven't even formed my own opinion.  In fact, in my original post I even stated, "From my understanding of what he is saying this would be a title."  But I do/did think Mr. Perkin's statement warranted discussion.  If it is just a title, I don't see any negatives for leveling it.  There does not seem to be a single con to leveling it except maybe time spent.  If it's fun time spent, then it's not a waste and therefore no cons exist.  You can only gain pros out of this.  This is why I was eluding to it possibly being something 'bigger'; like a higher power of a class.   At its current state, it appears everyone is going to be a 'keeper' anyway and you would actually be hurting your own character progression if you didn't.

    • 1992 posts
    November 10, 2019 6:25 PM PST

    As far as the OP's questions, first I would point out how likely it is that we will all have multiple titles, and the choice of which to display. 'Sage' will be only one. So you won't be stuck with it on a big, brawny Ogre Warrior :)

    I believe VR said a long time ago that there would not be any kind of 'spec'ing for classes. I haven't heard any mention of it, so I assume that is still the case. But anything is possible at this stage.

    "during the teaser, there is no gameplay footage" I'm sorry that seems to be incorrect. At about min. 14 of the stream, Joppa or Ben - I don't remember which - said "the footage that we showed is not a cutscene, that is in game footage".

     

     

    I have wondered too about why you wouldn't choose to be a keeper. Reading this thread leads me to think I might know one reason to choose it.

    On a recent stream, I heard it said that Perception won't be used to 'gate' any significant part of game play. You won't miss a whole city, or dungeon or (presumably) the only epic weapon for your class. In light of that, I can suggest that maybe skipping the perception system will be a favored path for those who are MOST set on getting their character to max level as quickly as possible. Endgame focused players.

    If that is true then it's a pleasant observation that so many of us like me didn't realize this before, because so many of us are more the 'stop and smell the roses' types vs. 'wanna get where I'm going' types.

    We should have fun.

    • 47 posts
    November 10, 2019 6:31 PM PST

    Jothany said:

     

    "during the teaser, there is no gameplay footage" I'm sorry that seems to be incorrect. At about min. 14 of the stream, Joppa or Ben - I don't remember which - said "the footage that we showed is not a cutscene, that is in game footage".

     

    Actualy gameplay footage.  Not a camera pan of being in game.  You cannot see any UI nor combat.  So yes.  While this is footage being shot "in-game" it is not footage of them playing the game.  So I don't think this is the "demo" Jared is referencing.

    EDIT:  And I don't care about them not showing the UI while in game, or combat.  I thought it was beautiful.  I'm just saying I don't think that that tiny snippet of "being in-game" was the demo mentioned.

     

    Jothany said:

    I have wondered too about why you wouldn't choose to be a keeper. Reading this thread leads me to think I might know one reason to choose it.

    On a recent stream, I heard it said that Perception won't be used to 'gate' any significant part of game play. You won't miss a whole city, or dungeon or (presumably) the only epic weapon for your class. In light of that, I can suggest that maybe skipping the perception system will be a favored path for those who are MOST set on getting their character to max level as quickly as possible. Endgame focused players.

    If that is true then it's a pleasant observation that so many of us like me didn't realize this before, because so many of us are more the 'stop and smell the roses' types vs. 'wanna get where I'm going' types.

    We should have fun.

    I think not becoming a Keeper will slow down your leveling progession, not speed it up.  You will miss all of the quests associated with the events of coming across various things with the perception system.  So unless the perception system "leveling" does not grant you "regular" levels - then I believe you will actually level slower.


    This post was edited by Talint at November 10, 2019 6:36 PM PST
    • 520 posts
    November 11, 2019 6:15 AM PST

    I'm pretty sure devs missheard the question since they haven't said a word wheter or not there will be positives for NOT being a Keeper (most likely there won't be - though I kind of wish there were). As for titles and levels of perception system - the level may alter how our char is being adressed by NPCs and available quests maybe - perhaps even non-class related perception abilities (so eg at the beginning we will be able to use active ability to "investigate" surrounding - having small chance of revealing any secret, but later on we will be able to focus on different aspects, like "reveal magic" - giving us huge boost to finding magical secrets (illusions, rifts, curses etc). I think it would be nice if different classes had different names for corresponding perception ranks (like paladin would be "crusader", while wizard would be a "sage" and rogue "assassin/thief" at the same rank) - though I doubt they'd be much different from each other in sense of their abilities - though from I've understood, some secrets could be only discovered with certain mix of race and class - looking forward to it!.