Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Food and Drink is out!

    • 316 posts
    November 5, 2019 1:46 PM PST

    Fun or not (and I think it was fun in EQ), food just adds a lot to the realism, and so helps a lot with immersion. Vendors should have food everywhere - that's what beings need constantly.

    Having food become optional is much less fun for me - as Vandraad said, it'll become mandatory anyway, but it ends up feeling strange to buy a lemon pie or something and know it's just a stat enhancer, not actual food. I'd prefer to do away with food entirely in that case and just sell stat/recovery potions or tonics - no need to mask those cool items as "food" that is obviously not actually food.

    And we could let Skar eat less food over longer periods as a racial advantage =P

    And Gnomes could all have a spell that converts food to whatever energy they consume =)

     

    Aand just in case someone thinks it, promoting food for immersion does not mean I think we should need to use toilets too! The races of Terminus produce zero waste!


    This post was edited by Alexander at November 5, 2019 1:56 PM PST
    • 520 posts
    November 5, 2019 1:55 PM PST

    Watemper said:

    Hegenox said:

    Watemper said:

    Ahh another debate on an rpg element of the game getting turned into something stupid like WoW food lol. Although with this debate...WoW food is more of a necessity than what some people are trying to come up with lol. But yeah..my character is immortal and won't dehydrate or starve to death...lets go with what every other mmo is doing.

     

    If you/they want Pantheon to be realistic survival game - then, by all means, do it - I'll play it and enjoy it - just do it all the way and make us remember about consuming food and not play with auto-consume which defeats the whole purpose. Besides by going along with your idea, that character must eat and drink or he'll starve and dehydrate, then he should as well do something with this consumed food - so stop to piss and take a dump - otherwise, he will piss himself and crap his pants during boss fight and will slip and be knocked down constantly, not to mention he will take a massive hit to his charisma, which may never be restored fully ...

    Edit: In my mind, some details whether it's in a game or in a book can and many times should be omitted - because they can simply be taken for granted. Besides you can just think that your character just makes a food/toilet breaks in the same exact moment as you do in your life so you just can't see it.

     

    I don't mind. :) If we wanna go all the way. Hell if you like extremes how about if you die in the game you have to start over right...I mean real life and all. If you wanna go to the extreme that is...or you can take what I said a little more serious :).

    There are games like that you know, also MMOs. I took you seriously and replied that i disagree and given you my reasoning. And I don't particularly like extremes - I don't mind them, but what I like is a reason behind something. There is a reason for consuming food for buffs, there is a reason for manually consuming food for a realistic feel. I, however, fail to see a reason for auto-consume food: fun? - hardly, realism? - no, then what?

    • 316 posts
    November 5, 2019 2:11 PM PST
    Hey Hegenox, why doesn't autoconsume add to realism? It's still more realistic than not eating food. It doesn't need to be 100% the way we humans do it or nothing in order for it to add to realism. And I can't believe people were actually making the toilet argument - same logic as above, jeeeeeez.

    The fact is buying and storing food before adventuring DOES add to the realism, even if it's autoconsume, and even if it's one of the only semihuman necessities in the game. Btw, make it work differently for Gnomes, they're energy.

    Come dudes, how silly.
    • 2756 posts
    November 5, 2019 2:16 PM PST

    I'm not upset to not have to manage food/drink just to stay alive or, more often, just to be able to regain health/mana.

    I don't really want Pantheon to be a survival game.

    Sure not everything has to be a rollercoaster fun ride, but having to go to a vendor every few days and having food take up a couple of inventory slots was not only "not fun", it was pretty tedious and trivial.  Forgetting food was irritating, not a challenge or an opportunity for social interaction and adventure.

    In EQ, you didn't need to build a campfire and go to sleep or be exhausted.  No one seemed to mind that realistic aspect was missing.

    I'm happy that cooking and brewing will still be in and making food/drink buff consumables is fine.

    There is always a line to draw in these games where realism balances with immersion, tedium, fun, challenge, etc.  I don't want to have to worry about finding my character a regular spot to poop or suffering from bowel disorders.  I don't want to worry about cleaning teeth or suffering charisma loss from hallitocis.  Normal food and weighty coins are in that list.


    This post was edited by disposalist at November 5, 2019 2:28 PM PST
    • 520 posts
    November 5, 2019 2:34 PM PST

    Alexander said: Hey Hegenox, why doesn't autoconsume add to realism? It's still more realistic than not eating food. It doesn't need to be 100% the way we humans do it or nothing in order for it to add to realism. And I can't believe people were actually making the toilet argument - same logic as above, jeeeeeez. The fact is buying and storing food before adventuring DOES add to the realism, even if it's autoconsume, and even if it's one of the only semihuman necessities in the game. Btw, make it work differently for Gnomes, they're energy. Come dudes, how silly.

    Well - I and it seems others as well, not to mention devs (and I'm pretty sure they've given it much more thought than we at this point) - apparently just can't see a benefit.

    • 316 posts
    November 5, 2019 2:34 PM PST

    Including food but not camping/shitting/brushing our teeth does not lessen the immersion food adds. Of course we're not going to do a whole active thing - but buying stacks of food/drink and keeping track of it once every several hours is really not too much of an imposition. Id say it adds more than it subtracts. EQ was never a survival game because of food/drink, hah.

    More importantly though, food that isnt required isnt really food - and that's what feels weirdest to me about that system. You buy an eclair and it's just a stat-boost item. Id personally rather see food removed and just implied, with tinctures/tonics taking their place as stat and recovery items. It feels a bit weird for me to see food items as not necessary (even though theyll become mandatory, but in a less fun way because we will be minmaxing for certain food benefits). Make em potions - but that's just me.

    Regardless, great respect to VR!


    This post was edited by Alexander at November 5, 2019 2:40 PM PST
    • 520 posts
    November 5, 2019 2:40 PM PST

    Alexander said:

    Including food but not camping/shitting/brushing our teeth does not lessen the immersion food adds. Of course we're not going to do a whole active thing - but buying stacks of food/drink and keeping track of it once every several hours is really not too much of an imposition. Id say it adds more than it subtracts. EQ was never a survival game because of food/drink, hah.

    More importantly though, food that isnt required isnt really food - and that's what feels weirdest to me about that system. You buy an eclair and it's like this enhancer in our inventory. Id personally rather see food removed and just implied, with tinctures/tonics taking their place as stat and recovery items. It feels a bit weird for me to see food items as not necessary (even though theyll become mandatory, but in a less fun way because we will be minmaxing for certain food benefits). Make em potions - but that's just me.

    Regardless, great respect to VR!

    Maybe the laws that dictate persons stomachs (and bodies) are just different in that universe and they don't need to eat 3-5 meals a day to stay healthy - maybe they eat it purely because it taste good and adds bonuses ;-)


    This post was edited by Hegenox at November 5, 2019 2:42 PM PST
    • 316 posts
    November 5, 2019 2:41 PM PST

    Hegenox said:

    Maybe the laws that dictate persons stomachs are just different in that universe and they don't need to eat 3-5 meals a day to survive - maybe they eat it purely because it taste good and adds bonuses ;-)

    Haha, fair enough!

    • 68 posts
    November 5, 2019 2:53 PM PST

    You guys make me laugh. Getting "prepared" to go adventuring. I am happy to see them make a change in this direction. If buying 300 food/water to last you a few weeks like in every other MMO is something you look forward to we should talk about upping your expectations.

     

    Its an annoyance more than anything. You don't stop to go to the bathroom, brush you teeth or sleep(and don't give me that "logging off is when I sleep" stuff, you can log out in the middle of a dungeon), so why get hung up on this?

     

    If they are going to add it into the game they thay are heading in the right direction. Don't make it mandatory make it beneficial and tradeskill only.

    • 316 posts
    November 5, 2019 3:14 PM PST

    Yeah, what's the big deal with buying a stack or two - not 300 - of food/drink before heading out to adventure? Just because we eat does not mean we need to do all the other real life things, obviously. I'm discussing this because food is such an easy thing that adds a lot to realismBasically it seems to come down to whether we think buying food from vendors every several hours is cool - I think it is, and could be one of the only little "real" things to keep track of. I think that slight (so slight) amount of tension would help us enjoy playing the game. It's similar to why we want death penalties. It helps me feel a bit more immersed in the character's world. And no, we don't need to bathe or get sick or sleep to be immersed. Ultimately it'll be fine either way, but little differences like these make less tangible impressions that can keep the game vital. 


    This post was edited by Alexander at November 5, 2019 4:48 PM PST
    • 1785 posts
    November 5, 2019 3:24 PM PST

    I just want to go on record that I feel like autoconsume is a bad thing in game just like in real life.  I mean, I *always* regret it when I open a bag of potato chips or something and leave autoconsume turned on.  Just saying. :)

    • 520 posts
    November 5, 2019 3:39 PM PST

    Nephele said:

    I just want to go on record that I feel like autoconsume is a bad thing in game just like in real life.  I mean, I *always* regret it when I open a bag of potato chips or something and leave autoconsume turned on.  Just saying. :)

    I laughed much lauder than I should have. Thank you for that ;-)

    • 521 posts
    November 5, 2019 7:43 PM PST

    Personally I’d rather food and drinks consumption be left in the taverns and maybe camp sites, in that they aid in recovery and resting but leave no buffs or bonues once leaving those areas. Leave the combat buffs to class skills, and let food/drink function as a social mechanism to bring customers to designated camp sites or taverns where cooks and bards can engage with the people, and help them remove that battle fatigue while they socialize and meet new Friends.

    Food and drink as a means of survival really needs to stay in survival games where grouping and socializing isn't a priority


    This post was edited by HemlockReaper at November 7, 2019 6:44 PM PST
    • 1247 posts
    November 6, 2019 2:14 AM PST

    oneADseven said:

    I'm quite happy about the direction they are going with food/drink.  Instead of players needing to maintain a stock of each so that their characters can function normally (regenerate HP/Mana) they will instead be used as more of a traditional consumable that provides durational buffs.  This creates a dynamic where consuming food/drink is more tactical and weighty.  They won't need to put stale bread and water on every other merchant in the world because they aren't required for basic functionality.  They become more of a luxury item that provokes thought prior to consuming them.  Instead of having food/drink being this mega-accessible thing on merchants all over the world, I imagine most/all of it will come from crafting.  When I think of how this makes the game more fun, the benefits are numerous.  Dying with an expensive food/drink buff adds another layer to the death penalty.  If food and drink are mostly player-crafted, that will also help realize a player-driven economy.  Food/Drink will still be used as an integral part of preparation ... they are just changing the dynamic from "stock up on stuff from an NPC merchant that gets auto-consumed for the next XX hours" to "there are a wide range of situational buffs that can be leveraged, all coming from different recipes, that require different ingredients (harvested or dropped from an NPC)  --  use them tactically because they probably won't be cheap."  Two thumbs way up from me.

    BOO! Once again EZ gameplay is touted just like mainstream - no thanks! Pantheon does not need buffs galore. That’s a player‘s job. 

    #communitymatters 


    This post was edited by Syrif at November 6, 2019 2:49 AM PST
    • 1247 posts
    November 6, 2019 2:20 AM PST

    Kalok said:

    I think food and drink need to be in just as they have always been in.  So what if they're not "fun".  They're a part of adventuring, and the mechanic is what it is for a reason.  This is a large disappointment that they are changing basic underlying mechanics that add to the strategy of the game.  You need to prepare for adventuring, not just wander off some place.  Food and drink is an integral part of that preparation.

     

    Edited to add:  I could go off on a long story of how it made adventuring, and preparing for adventuring more fun, but at the moment I am getting ready to head out to work and don't have the time.  I can certainly do it later.

    I 100% agree with Kalok and OP. Food and water need to be bought or summoned/prepared before adventuring. Having food and water equipped in inventory should be highly necessary as it always has been.

    I imagine many people will be extremely annoyed if food/water is really turned into another stupid stat buff like World of Warcraft. Stat buffs are a player’s job, not a food’s job. LMAO, if that really happens to Pantheon that would be pathetic.


    This post was edited by Syrif at November 6, 2019 3:18 AM PST
    • 2756 posts
    November 6, 2019 3:21 AM PST

    Syrif said:

    Kalok said:

    I think food and drink need to be in just as they have always been in.  So what if they're not "fun".  They're a part of adventuring, and the mechanic is what it is for a reason.  This is a large disappointment that they are changing basic underlying mechanics that add to the strategy of the game.  You need to prepare for adventuring, not just wander off some place.  Food and drink is an integral part of that preparation. 

    Edited to add:  I could go off on a long story of how it made adventuring, and preparing for adventuring more fun, but at the moment I am getting ready to head out to work and don't have the time.  I can certainly do it later.

    I 100% agree with Kalok and OP. Food and water need to be bought and prepared for before adventuring. Having food and water equipped in inventory should be highly necessary  as it always has been.

    As to some of the others on this thread: can we please stop it with the touting of EZ gameplay already?? I know I am here because I do NOT want a game like mainstream. 

    Please don't take this as an attack, but, dude, come on: Anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion of the traditional food/drink prep thing is "touting of EZ gameplay"?

    Shall I follow your precedent and say: Can we please stop it with the touting of boring, unnecessary gameplay already? I know I am here because I do NOT want a game like mainstream, but neither do I want an exact clone of EQ/VG, especially the bits that were tedious even in 1999?

    But I wouldn't say that, because that would be insulting anyone who happens to like the whole food/drink buying thing.

    How about: Can we please stop with the dismissing and disrespecting of others' opinions as if they are somehow objectively 'wrong', 'stupid' or even somehow 'dangerous'?

    Or: Can we please stop acting like our own interpretation of old-school MMORPGs, or indeed the fantasy genre, is perfect and any deviation by others is like they are morally corrupt and responsible for the destruction of the genre and the universe or something?

    It should be obvious to anyone in these forums for more than a few threads that people have differing opinions about many small/large aspects of MMORPGs.  They also have similar opinions on many.  The same people will be opposed on some and aligned on others.  Let's try and be understanding where there are differences.  Let's be tolerant and polite if we can't reach an understanding.  Let's try and enjoy the discussions even when seemingly 'opposing' opinions come up?

    Yes, I know I have been overly defensive or opinionated or passive-aggressive sometimes.  Even this post could be seen as overly... something... I'm not perfect (but it's damned close!)  Sorry if I offend.  Let's go get a beer!

    @Syrif I really don't mean this as an attack at you. I would just love it if we could be 'nicer' in these forums. We are in a niche community already, wanting something like Pantheon. We should concentrate on our similarities and stick together, but try and enjoy our interesting differences.

    Ogres and Halflings will be grouping together in Terminus soon enough. If they can, we can ;^)


    This post was edited by disposalist at November 6, 2019 3:22 AM PST
    • 520 posts
    November 6, 2019 4:17 AM PST

    disposalist said:

    Syrif said:

    Kalok said:

    I think food and drink need to be in just as they have always been in.  So what if they're not "fun".  They're a part of adventuring, and the mechanic is what it is for a reason.  This is a large disappointment that they are changing basic underlying mechanics that add to the strategy of the game.  You need to prepare for adventuring, not just wander off some place.  Food and drink is an integral part of that preparation. 

    Edited to add:  I could go off on a long story of how it made adventuring, and preparing for adventuring more fun, but at the moment I am getting ready to head out to work and don't have the time.  I can certainly do it later.

    I 100% agree with Kalok and OP. Food and water need to be bought and prepared for before adventuring. Having food and water equipped in inventory should be highly necessary  as it always has been.

    As to some of the others on this thread: can we please stop it with the touting of EZ gameplay already?? I know I am here because I do NOT want a game like mainstream. 

    Please don't take this as an attack, but, dude, come on: Anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion of the traditional food/drink prep thing is "touting of EZ gameplay"?

    Shall I follow your precedent and say: Can we please stop it with the touting of boring, unnecessary gameplay already? I know I am here because I do NOT want a game like mainstream, but neither do I want an exact clone of EQ/VG, especially the bits that were tedious even in 1999?

    But I wouldn't say that, because that would be insulting anyone who happens to like the whole food/drink buying thing.

    How about: Can we please stop with the dismissing and disrespecting of others' opinions as if they are somehow objectively 'wrong', 'stupid' or even somehow 'dangerous'?

    Or: Can we please stop acting like our own interpretation of old-school MMORPGs, or indeed the fantasy genre, is perfect and any deviation by others is like they are morally corrupt and responsible for the destruction of the genre and the universe or something?

    It should be obvious to anyone in these forums for more than a few threads that people have differing opinions about many small/large aspects of MMORPGs.  They also have similar opinions on many.  The same people will be opposed on some and aligned on others.  Let's try and be understanding where there are differences.  Let's be tolerant and polite if we can't reach an understanding.  Let's try and enjoy the discussions even when seemingly 'opposing' opinions come up?

    Yes, I know I have been overly defensive or opinionated or passive-aggressive sometimes.  Even this post could be seen as overly... something... I'm not perfect (but it's damned close!)  Sorry if I offend.  Let's go get a beer!

    @Syrif I really don't mean this as an attack at you. I would just love it if we could be 'nicer' in these forums. We are in a niche community already, wanting something like Pantheon. We should concentrate on our similarities and stick together, but try and enjoy our interesting differences.

    Ogres and Halflings will be grouping together in Terminus soon enough. If they can, we can ;^)

    I agree. Though you are unnecessarily too apologetic - you (we) disagree with his point of view (in a major way), but that is normal - we do live in crazy times if we have to apologise for having a different opinion - lets not taint Pantheon with this millenial bullshit and talk like normal people xP

    • 2756 posts
    November 6, 2019 5:22 AM PST

    Hegenox said:

    I agree. Though you are unnecessarily too apologetic - you (we) disagree with his point of view (in a major way), but that is normal - we do live in crazy times if we have to apologise for having a different opinion - lets not taint Pantheon with this millenial bullshit and talk like normal people xP

    I often despair of the over-sanatising of social media these days (and the ironically ridiculously huge attacks people suffer for the slightest miss-step), but there is a big difference between feeling you can't say anything for fear of offending someone and saying stuff you know will offend people when you really didn't need to.

    It doesn't have to be one or the other.

    We don't have to apologise for a different opinion, but we perhaps should if we insult another's opinion.

    And in saying that, I've possibly insulted your opinion about being able to give your opinion at the risk of insulting others.  Or misrepresented your opinion.  Or misunderstood  ;^)

    But the point for me is that I'm not saying, "I'm right, you're wrong (and stupid)", I'm saying, "Is this what you think? This is what I think. Let's discuss"

    And now I'm derailing the discussion and all this may be Kilsin-ed for the harmony of the community hehe.  Sorry Kilsin.  Sorry Hegenox for apologising.  Sorry everyone for all this spam waffle about being sorry.

    To get back to food and drink: Would it change anyone's opinion to think of traditional food and drink as always having been a 'buff' thing that caused mana and health to rejuvanate?  All VR are doing with Pantheon is making the buff effect more interesting and variable and less something you simply pretty much have no choice but to have in order to play?

    • 1584 posts
    November 6, 2019 5:33 AM PST
    Yeah way I look at it, if you get food/water your better off so will feel like you should have it, but not making you require it is kind of a nice twist, because honestly in eq it honestly just felt you were wasting inventory space for the sake of reality, it isn't nesscary, I think having food and water should be important and not just a inventory filler, give it purpose.
    • 696 posts
    November 6, 2019 7:27 AM PST

    It was necessary because you needed it to regen mana and health lol.

    • 411 posts
    November 6, 2019 7:28 AM PST

    Required tedious mechanics usually follow the same trajectory.

    1) This mechanic will add to realism and the added challenge is good for the player. (need for food and water)
    2) This mechanic is taking up an annoying amount of time for our players and they're complaining about it. (constant resupply trips and cost)
    3) We are implementing a mechanic that eases the burden on players. (summoned food and water)
    4) We have decided not to bother with the mechanic since it isn't challenging at all is now pure tedium. (removing food and water needs)

    The developers should play to our psychology and fending off a negative effect is just a horrible way to motivate people. Think of harvesting, crafting, and fishing, all of which are nearly universally adored/adopted tedious mechanics but they all involve working for a reward and are all optional.

    That said, I don't generally like food/drink being used for buffs but that may just be due to implementation in previous games. Before battle when I eat a steak dinner, fish and chips, a fresh salad, halfling wine, sparkling spring water, a chocolate cake, and lemon sorbet then somehow I'm MORE prepared to fight?? That's just absurdity. Issues with gluttony aside, it's just a silly and narrowly focused approach to getting buffs to players. If my character needs to consume a small fortune worth of food before fighting a dragon, then I'll be quite dissappointed. At the very least we should get full after one meal and one drink.


    This post was edited by Ainadak at November 6, 2019 7:39 AM PST
    • 696 posts
    November 6, 2019 7:31 AM PST

    ^ true it is kind of dumb with buff foods lol.

    It is also an easy way to cheese alts through content and making things much more trivial in the long run. Not a fan.


    This post was edited by Watemper at November 6, 2019 7:31 AM PST
    • 1019 posts
    November 6, 2019 7:44 AM PST

    Ainadak said:

    Required tedious mechanics usually follow the same trajectory.

    1) This mechanic will add to realism and the added challenge is good for the player. (need for food and water)
    2) This mechanic is taking up an annoying amount of time for our players and they're complaining about it. (constant resupply trips and cost)
    3) We are implementing a mechanic that eases the burden on players. (summoned food and water)
    4) We have decided not to bother with the mechanic since it isn't challenging at all is now pure tedium. (removing food and water needs)

    The developers should play to our psychology and fending off a negative effect is just a horrible way to motivate people. Think of harvesting, crafting, and fishing, all of which are nearly universally adored/adopted tedious mechanics but they all involve working for a reward and are all optional.

    This is what I feel they are doing with the removal of "traditional" food and drink mechanic.  However, my concern is that taking away the aggrivating boring tedious parts of the game, you'll have a hollow game.

    • 3237 posts
    November 6, 2019 8:05 AM PST

    Kittik said:

    This is what I feel they are doing with the removal of "traditional" food and drink mechanic.  However, my concern is that taking away the aggrivating boring tedious parts of the game, you'll have a hollow game.

    I find this to be an interesting perspective for a few reasons.  My guess is that they are trying to alleviate the "boring" aspect, but when it comes to what players will perceive as aggravating or tedious, I'm not so sure that this will go away.  If anything, I think food/drink consumption will be more important and demanding.  Instead of being able to overcome the food/drink requirement with very little effort (buying stacks of cheap food/drink from an NPC vendor) players will have to purchase both from other players.  I guarantee that there will be folks who complain about how boring/tedious/aggravating this could end up being.  We have already seen some of that on this thread.  Maintaining a supply of expensive consumables will likely require more time spent farming (grouping, treasure hunting, adventuring, harvesting) which some folks may not enjoy.

    Personally, I am a big fan.  The more incentives we have to interact with each other, the better.  Make no mistake ... depending on the potency of these buffs, many folks will consider them to be a requirement.  I am far more interested in maintaining consumables that are derived from a player-driven economy than an NPC merchant.  I would very much enjoy managing these valuable resources selectively rather than putting them on auto-pilot.  Removing the NPC variable is a good thing for the game as it will add value (and demand) to harvested resources and NPC drops such as boar meat, frog legs, griffon wings, etc.  By adding value to these NPC drops, it detracts from the idea of "trash mobs" in general.  Mobs aren't considered trash when they drop resources that players want/need.

    To expand on that a little bit further ... I think it would be a good idea if NPC vendors sold certain ingredients or recipes.  Some of those could be gated behind quests or faction requirements.  If that were to happen, we go back to my original point where some players might complain about it.  Rather than food/drink being something that is trivially solved by the masses, it could end up playing an important role in the player-driven economy and PVE content in general.  I enjoy the idea of having to spend time gathering resources, trading with other players, grinding faction, unlocking recipes, and searching for rare ingredients.  Those things sound much more fun than spending a few minutes per week "preparing" for my adventures by stocking up from an NPC.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at November 6, 2019 8:17 AM PST
    • 1247 posts
    November 6, 2019 9:13 AM PST

    disposalist said:

    Syrif said:

    Kalok said:

    I think food and drink need to be in just as they have always been in.  So what if they're not "fun".  They're a part of adventuring, and the mechanic is what it is for a reason.  This is a large disappointment that they are changing basic underlying mechanics that add to the strategy of the game.  You need to prepare for adventuring, not just wander off some place.  Food and drink is an integral part of that preparation. 

    Edited to add:  I could go off on a long story of how it made adventuring, and preparing for adventuring more fun, but at the moment I am getting ready to head out to work and don't have the time.  I can certainly do it later.

    I 100% agree with Kalok and OP. Food and water need to be bought and prepared for before adventuring. Having food and water equipped in inventory should be highly necessary  as it always has been.

    Please don't take this as an attack, but, dude, come on: Anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion of the traditional food/drink prep thing is "touting of EZ gameplay"?

    Shall I follow your precedent and say: Can we please stop it with the touting of boring, unnecessary gameplay already? I know I am here because I do NOT want a game like mainstream, but neither do I want an exact clone of EQ/VG, especially the bits that were tedious even in 1999?

    But I wouldn't say that, because that would be insulting anyone who happens to like the whole food/drink buying thing.

    How about: Can we please stop with the dismissing and disrespecting of others' opinions as if they are somehow objectively 'wrong', 'stupid' or even somehow 'dangerous'?

    Or: Can we please stop acting like our own interpretation of old-school MMORPGs, or indeed the fantasy genre, is perfect and any deviation by others is like they are morally corrupt and responsible for the destruction of the genre and the universe or something?

    It should be obvious to anyone in these forums for more than a few threads that people have differing opinions about many small/large aspects of MMORPGs.  They also have similar opinions on many.  The same people will be opposed on some and aligned on others.  Let's try and be understanding where there are differences.  Let's be tolerant and polite if we can't reach an understanding.  Let's try and enjoy the discussions even when seemingly 'opposing' opinions come up?

    Yes, I know I have been overly defensive or opinionated or passive-aggressive sometimes.  Even this post could be seen as overly... something... I'm not perfect (but it's damned close!)  Sorry if I offend.  Let's go get a beer!

    @Syrif I really don't mean this as an attack at you. I would just love it if we could be 'nicer' in these forums. We are in a niche community already, wanting something like Pantheon. We should concentrate on our similarities and stick together, but try and enjoy our interesting differences.

    Ogres and Halflings will be grouping together in Terminus soon enough. If they can, we can ;^)

    First, I‘ve never gone by “dude.”

    Second, if you are going to quote me, then please quote me correctly. So damn annoying.

    Third, if I wanted a World of Warcraft mechanism then I would play World of Warcraft. And Final Fantasy is crappy mainstrean 2.0. Let’s not bring that into Pantheon because mainstream sux. Cute dog btw.


    This post was edited by Syrif at November 6, 2019 9:20 AM PST