I've been reading more and more posts recently and have been seeing lots of comparisons to other games pretty frequently when almost any topic on Pantheon gets brought up. So I'm just wondering what everyones thoughts are on this, do you think comparing Pantheon up against other games puts too much hype in viewers heads or do you think it's whats needed in order to make a successful game and why? Dev's are more than welcome to join in the convo if they want to.
I'll start it off with my thoughts and leave it on that.
To me it's kind of this double edged sword right? On one hand it shows the importance of why someone is excited for Pantheon, kind of what they are hoping for in a game to bring them into an immense world. I see a lot of comparison on both ends with World of Warcraft. While WoW is a very successful game you can see the drop off over time. New expansion comes out everyone floods the gates with new content and over the course of patches subs begin to fade once again until the next big patch or expansion comes out. I think that says tons about the game and content created by Blizzard. Now it could be because the game is 15 years old and people have *seen* it all, which comes into terms of what do we want to make sure we see Pantheon do to avoid things like this? Again though, I truly believe the only thing in the forseeable future that is going to kill WoW, will be WoW themselves I.E. a new game/project or a remake of WoW.
On the other hand I see a lot of people say WoW thrives due to its PvP content with competitions each year for cash prizes and the fame. Arenas, Rated Battlegrounds, World PvP and they want to see that style be brought into Pantheon. Lore wise Blizzard does really make some interesting lore (if you ever read up on it) but sometimes the delivery runs short in game, sometimes it does amazing.
A couple of other big comparisons I see is Ultima Online, specifically PvP and Everquest for PvE. I think the biggest comparisons I see for this leans more to Everquest when it comes to comparing MMO's to/for/against Pantheon. Most people in this forum have played Everquest and understand the fundamentals and mentality of such an unforgiving game early on. I see a lot asking for Raid styles like the Planes and the Gods in each plane. Early Inny and Cazic Thule to Planes of Power type progression raiding. Again I'm sure there is more on these forums of other games and what people like I'm just listing off 3 that I see frequently.
For me I think comparing Pantheon to other games in terms of what you hope for isn't a bad thing and leans more to being positive. It gives the devs a chance (even though they have a vision to their game) to see what people enjoyed in the past and deemed successful to them in an MMO.
Where I find it bad or negative is when people get the idea that this game will be the next "Everquest" in a sense. Maybe not down to the tee, but you can surely see where people are almost forcing expectations on VR to put things in a game. While I truly believe the team is going to add many great things and maybe even take some points of views from other games, I think they are still going to stay away from some of these demands people want as then it doesn't become Pantheon it just becomes another clone of a former shell of another game.
Good - Hype and the ability to see support and maybe great ideas for their game within the community
Bad - Expectations to raise a bar that isn't going to be raised thus creating negative outlooks on the game before its release.
My take is rather different. I see most comparisons as not being "Pantheon is better than X - great" or "Pantheon isn't even as good as Y - uch".
I see most comparisons as being in line with these forums role as development forums.
X has a certain feature - I like it - can you make Pantheon more like it.
Y has a certain feature - I don't like it - can you avoid it.
Can't really compare a game that is not out of pre-alpha to be honest, however all you need to do is read the Pantheon differenceto start and also explore the game tenets to get an understanding of what the drive focus is for development.
dorotea said:My take is rather different. I see most comparisons as not being "Pantheon is better than X - great" or "Pantheon isn't even as good as Y - uch".
I see most comparisons as being in line with these forums role as development forums.
X has a certain feature - I like it - can you make Pantheon more like it.
Y has a certain feature - I don't like it - can you avoid it.
This is very much how i feel on the topic. Cool post OP.
My thoughts: Comparisons are inevitable. I think VR's been very communicative of 'The Difference'; which one may intuit 'the difference compared to other mmorpgs [etc]...' That's their thought provoking Mission Statement more or less. So, right there, expectations are set in place right from the get go. The Experience Bar IS set high, or where they envision what would set Protf apart from her predecessors.
I think VR will boldy go where other mmorpgs have gone before, improve certain aspects of the approach, & then continue on into more creative, engaging spaces.
my 2cp <3
dorotea said:My take is rather different. I see most comparisons as not being "Pantheon is better than X - great" or "Pantheon isn't even as good as Y - uch".
I see most comparisons as being in line with these forums role as development forums.
X has a certain feature - I like it - can you make Pantheon more like it.
Y has a certain feature - I don't like it - can you avoid it.
Well said.
Yaladan said:Can't really compare a game that is not out of pre-alpha to be honest, however all you need to do is read the Pantheon differenceto start and also explore the game tenets to get an understanding of what the drive focus is for development.
The point of the post is what people are comparing of what they like/dislike from other games and hopes of what they will or wont want to see in Pantheon. Not so much what VR's focus is. Yes it's hard to compare games to a game that isn't out yet to the majority of the public, doesn't stop the creative flow in the forums though of what people want/don't want =)
OGTomkins said:Yaladan said:Can't really compare a game that is not out of pre-alpha to be honest, however all you need to do is read the Pantheon differenceto start and also explore the game tenets to get an understanding of what the drive focus is for development.
The point of the post is what people are comparing of what they like/dislike from other games and hopes of what they will or wont want to see in Pantheon. Not so much what VR's focus is. Yes it's hard to compare games to a game that isn't out yet to the majority of the public, doesn't stop the creative flow in the forums though of what people want/don't want =)
The goo thing is that the dev's have been lurking for a long time and they do get a lot of feed from us, of course not everyone can be pleased but I am sure there has been a lot of imput they try to fir in so long it fits the world. Other mechanics of course will have to be tweaked during testing phases.
For a while I have felt that trying to draw comparisons is the lazy man's path to understanding. But it's way too easy to just say "Pantheon is kinda like EQ" and then people will automatically fill in the blanks and assume that Pantheon will come with a lot of the same problems that EQ did or whatever... which we have no evidence for. Most people do this instinctually and it just muddles up your perception of the game. It's more work, but I believe the only way to truly understand Pantheon for what it actually is is to just look at Pantheon on its own and avoid drawing comparisons.
It doesn't take the smallest brain to see that Pantheon is more and more looking as a spiritual successor to Classic Everquest, which is definitely an alternative to mainstream (that's a good thing). No, it is not "EQNext" though. Not all, but most of us here are from Classic Everquest. The mastermind of Pantheon was an original dev of EQ. Other Pantheon devs such as Joppa played Classic Everquest. I see no problem with looking to some inspiration from games that were once wonders. There will undoubtedly be inspirations from Classic Everquest, for obvious reasons. Keep Pantheoning onward! :)
Syrif said:It doesn't take the smallest brain to see that Pantheon is more and more looking as a spiritual successor to Classic Everquest, which is definitely an alternative to mainstream (that's a good thing). No, it is not "EQNext" though. Not all, but most of us here are from Classic Everquest. The mastermind of Pantheon was an original dev of EQ. Other Pantheon devs such as Joppa played Classic Everquest. I see no problem with looking to some inspiration from games that were once wonders. There will undoubtedly be inspirations from Classic Everquest, for obvious reasons. Keep Pantheoning onward! :)
Vanguard was the successor to EQ.
And EQN was EQ2 successor.
EQ2, nothing like EQ or Vanguard. EQ2 is a totally different game. Apples and avacado's.
Yep - correct. Brad did Classic Everquest, Vanguard and now Pantheon. Pantheon and Vanguard are both successors that draw upon inspiration to some extent from the type of game that Classic Everquest was. :)