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Crafter's Roundtable: What would you be willing to sacrifice?

    • 1415 posts
    August 31, 2019 4:39 PM PDT

    There's a truth to game development: Even though you can come up with amazing designs and cool ideas, it still takes a skilled programmer precious time to implement those things into the game and make them work. This is true whether we're talking about adventuring or crafting.

    So, for today's roundtable: What part of crafting would you be willing to sacrifice or skimp on in order to see Pantheon launch more quickly? Even if that meant that the crafting sphere wasn't as robust in that area as you would like.

    It's a hard question. Let us know what your answer would be.

    (Note from Nephele:  If you haven't seen these before, Crafter's Roundtables are discussion questions that the staff at Pantheon Crafters post periodically for the community.  Our goal with these is to start discussions that might benefit the game's development and allow us to learn more about each other.  We post these both on the Pantheon Crafters site itself as well as here on the official forums.  You can find a complete index to all of the past discussions on our site here.)


    This post was edited by Nephele at August 31, 2019 4:39 PM PDT
    • 256 posts
    September 1, 2019 10:38 AM PDT

    Still knowing very little about the crafting and harvesting spheres and how things are going to play out, I'd say let's not try to get Pantheon out the door more quickly but make sure that crafting and harvesting have a rightful place in the gameplay. How crafting and harvesting will fit into the world is vitally important to creating a fully fleshed out game. It seems clear that harvesting/crafting is already taking a back seat to the adventuring sphere and my gut sense it has already been paired down to it's essentials. I'm sure we've all played games where it feels like these systems have been tacked on and for me it just lessons the whole experience. I'd rather wait for Pantheon's release and have it done right than have pieces tacked on later.

    • 336 posts
    September 1, 2019 12:27 PM PDT

    There is no excuse to validate a rushed design. You'd just decrease the overall quality of the game and risk negative reviews or experiences by players. So, first answer would be: Nothing. Don't rush anything and go for depth and quality.

    But I'll play along to this question of yours Nephele.

    It would start with the question; "What are your expectations of crafting in Pantheon?" 

    Perhaps one could ask instead, what are the fun things about crafting that one might be willing to see passed on, when the game goes live?

    Crafting for me tells as much of a story as an encounter would. So it would not be much, but then again how would I know since it would be the proposed design at launch. And I would have to take it like it is.

    I might be ok with a detailed ui of the recipes/-book not being in the game and a basic ui being used (temporarily?).

    Crafting writs, especially repeatable ones, can be skipped for me. Wouldn't miss them if they weren't there at the start. But I would go into them if they were added later on.

    The location of workstations or tradeskill npc's might be standardized, instead of being spread out in Terminus, in distant dangerous places etc. It would ofc be a shame, to skip on that because it's all depth and content for crafters in the game. But somehow I'd get it at launch if that wasn't in place. So you'd have the usual npc in town selling all the recipes.

    A crafter-raid and group crafting can be sacrificed at first, but might be a good addition later on in time.

    I would not enjoy the following features being overlooked, skipped or rushed:

    • music relating to crafting (tool sounds, ambient music, music throughout the craftingprocess (such as dings when finishing a product), character sounds)
    • graphics: character animations, workstation animations, overall appearance of crafting related features and other
    • depth of the recipes and dispersion of resources in the world
    • harvesting animations
    • questlines for crafters
    • crafting factions or related societies
    • mini game during crafting (sorry but there are just too many ideas out there to just bypass this important part of crafting)
    • 8 posts
    September 1, 2019 10:26 PM PDT
    For me, a detailed recipe book can be omitted at least for now. I have kept paper and computer documentation of fails/successes before, and I can again. While having the game keep track of successes to make future combines faster/easier, it is not essential.
    On the fly crafting, or mobile crafting ability—such as forge/tailor kit in your pocket—could be omitted at the start. Forcing folks to craft in designated towns/hamlets for now vs the ability to break out the anvil while flouncing through the countryside would be fine as long as (if it is the eventual intent of the designers) eventually the ability to possible aid the group/raid in this way was possible (content allowing).
    A certain level of simplicity/generic-ness in component graphics could also be reasonable since I presume as more and more craftable items will be discovered, their associated component graphics can also be designed over time and are not all needed immediately at launch (unless someone plans on maxing out the first day.../looks at Nephele).
    • 1415 posts
    September 1, 2019 11:16 PM PDT

    I don't know why anyone might think I plan on maxing out the first day... ;)

    • 1695 posts
    September 2, 2019 9:22 AM PDT

    Nephele said:
    So, for today's roundtable: What part of crafting would you be willing to sacrifice or skimp on in order to see Pantheon launch more quickly? Even if that meant that the crafting sphere wasn't as robust in that area as you would like.

    All of it.

    Even though I have enjoyed crafting quite a lot in the past (EQ1, EVE) and will engage in crafting to support not only myself but also my guild (with as many alts as needed to be self sufficient), I would much rather see the game go live with no crafting if it meant getting it out the door that much quicker.

    • 1180 posts
    September 2, 2019 1:47 PM PDT

    Agreed, all of it.

    The current design shows nothing that couldn't be done better with some thought, attention, and in an expansion down the road.
    Honestly?  The economic damage of the current harvesting, crafting + infinite gold sink currency/finished-item looting will be permanent without demographic-breaking changes in the future.

    If that's not a good enough answer?  Then I would be willing to sacrifice the goal of 1 tradeskill per character to have Pantheon launch more quickly. 
    Especially given all tradeskills per PLAYER is perfectly fine, 1 tradeskill per character seems like a goal worth dropping. :) (or, put another way, lose the guaranteed failure attempt at interdependence)

    • 730 posts
    September 2, 2019 2:01 PM PDT

    I want a Pantheon release that is not one dimensional. If it’s all combat, all the time, it’s not delivering a complete, immersive experience.

    It can’t take as long to develop deep & interesting (i.e. fun!) crafting systems as it does to build dozens of zones and dungeons, populate them with appropriate mobs and loot, and wrap it all up with significant lore. Since different devs work on these different areas I don’t see speeding up release by cutting dev time on crafting. I would rather Ceythos stick to crafting than have him switch to building / populating terrain. False premise, I call shenanigans Neph ;)

    Might as well save time and release early by dropping the bard (or in Vandraad’s case - Shaman) class. Oh, wait...never mind.

     

    • 1322 posts
    September 2, 2019 8:17 PM PDT

    There is a bit of fishing in already.  Keep what's there.  The rest can wait.

    • 336 posts
    September 2, 2019 11:44 PM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    All of it. Even though I have enjoyed crafting quite a lot in the past (EQ1, EVE) and will engage in crafting to support not only myself but also my guild (with as many alts as needed to be self sufficient), I would much rather see the game go live with no crafting if it meant getting it out the door that much quicker. 

    That's an interesting reply. Since that would mean there is no need for harvesting at all, as you can't do anything with it. The environment around you will not be interactable. Salvaging would not be in the game, scavaging would only result in gear, consumables or coin. Because you have no use for resources or recipes (other then to sell). Unless VR has put decent coinsinks in the game, you'll see the wealth growing rapidly. It will be very heavily coin oriented. And with that, you're jumping months if not years ahead in time when it comes to item value and overall coin value. Speeding you up to the deflation pit.

    This could all work. It might deliver a very different game compared to what VR state that they will be offering. Still, it could work. 

    If the game launched without any of it, the basics and perhaps even the lower tier of the game would be surpassed by the adventuring players. Meaning, that they would not go back to experience what that crafting was like, after they've implemented it later in time. So you'd have players of a somewhat advanced stat/level coming across crafting at a stage that is beyond the discovery of things. Meaning, they will have found a way to survive and prosper without crafting. That can be true, the question becomes how valuable is crafting for those players after it's been released? Considering that it will take up more time for them and they managed to get along and grow in the game without it, I doubt many would feel a necessity for it. ("Why would I want to spend time becoming a blacksmith? I'm doing just fine without crafting.") It might feel forced upon them even. If it's not valueable for those players, why spend time to design a crafting system at all? And with that comes the following question; Is VR creating a world without crafting or with? To that, it seems the answer is; WITH. So, crafting in some shape or form is a necessity at launch. (at least according to this line of thinking)

    With new players streaming in later on, crafting would be in the game at that time, but the progression rate would be different in comparison to the progression of those players that were there at launch (in the abscense of crafting content). This might result in gap between advanced players that (do or do not) require crafting of advanced level and those newcomers that have a slower paced game ahead of them. 

    Putting in node systems and testing those later, AFTER launch, IN a full on game, seems like asking for trouble. If they put it in before launch and leave it in, you'd have a good amount of hoarders that will stack up resources (which they can't use atm), waiting for VR to put in crafting at some time in the future. With that prices for resources and possibly items/components will start off low, due to the amount of harvested material already present on the players. Temporarily deactivating the nodes, until crafting is put in, could make the play experience very odd and unfinished. This could be devastating for reviews of the game, since we're talking about a game after their full launch moment.

    Another possibility would be to allow players at launch into zones were there are no nodes present and only when crafting is released are those other areas opened up. Since, we're looking at different startingcities and travel across continent, this would be a considerable amount of zones to block out. Bringing me back to the risks of bad reviews as players are now experiencing a game where zones are blocked out at launch. Unless the devs are spending time to designs those blockades as such that it would feel organic to the player, those players might experience it as an unfinished game being released.

     

    Still, it's food for thought. 

     

     

    • 943 posts
    September 3, 2019 4:57 AM PDT

    Go big or go home.

    It is much harder to change a simple system to a complex system down the road and good mini games are an art in and of themselves.

    To that end I advocate for stopping development on a rushed crafting/harvesting system and make the game exist for the first year or so on drops only.

    Give the development team the time and money to make an unforgettable deep crafting system that fits with the flavor and pacing of Pantheon.  They can leave the general design space for crafting to fill in later but unless itemization is crafting centric then crafting is superfluous and a rushed crafting/harvesting system would be doubly so.

     

    After all a simple crafting system based on 1 recipe = one possible outcome works better as a questing/faction system than a grind heavy, material consuming, shallow, crafting system where the crafter has no ability to effect the outcome.  One is a fairly good play experience and the other is a huge cash sink with little to no return.

     


    This post was edited by Trasak at September 3, 2019 5:15 AM PDT
    • 1415 posts
    September 3, 2019 9:13 AM PDT

    I don't usually reply to the roundtable threads that I post, because I don't want to influence the discussion - after all, I'm representing a community site when I post these.  But on this one, I don't think I can stay silent.

    I asked this question primarily in an effort to get us to all think about what's most important to us when it comes to crafting.  We have to recognize that no matter what happens, we all have different ideas of what a perfect system looks like - and thus, what we see from VR will never be perfect.  The hope is that it will still be "good", but in order to get to that point, we have to understand what the core things are that we really, truly care about.

    If the question didn't come across that way to everyone, that's my bad.  I was trying to be succinct, and I didn't frame it well enough.  Apologies.  That's on me.

    Here's where I stand personally though.  I think that in order for Pantheon to be successful, full stop, then we must have the following:

    - Crafting cannot be a side game or something done only in cities.  There must be a need for, and content for crafters out in the world.

    - The act of crafting an item must be challenging and engaging.

    - Progressing as a crafter should involve varied gameplay, vertical and horizontal objectives, and meaningful choices.

    - The entire system must be approachable and relatively easy to get into, but have enough depth to keep it very interesting as you go forward.

    - The items that crafters make must be viable and desired by everyone, even non-crafters.

    - The crafting and adventuring spheres must be very tightly integrated.  One should not be able to really exist without the other.

    - Systems that facilitate the economy should be built so that they are less prone to abuse by players; so that they self-regulate to some degree; and so that they can truly support a game where 1/3 to 1/2 of the population might be regularly trying to sell items to each other.

     

    When I think about all of these must-haves, I'm not left with very much that Pantheon could skimp on, if I'm being honest.  Some of you have mentioned the recipe book UI as a possibility, and that makes sense.  Some customization options like being able to change the appearance of an item also make sense, short-term.  But truthfully, most of it is critical in my view.

    Trasak said:  "Go big, or go home."

     

    I say:  "Go big, or fail."

     

    That's my personal opinion.


    This post was edited by Nephele at September 3, 2019 9:30 AM PDT
    • 1695 posts
    September 3, 2019 9:44 AM PDT

    And just how many more months (or year+) will it take for VR, with their small team, to implement all this?  How much furhter down the road will Alpha and subsequently Release be punted? At some point you have to cut features to release a product to start earning some revenue so that you can then go back and include those features.  You cannot have it all, and/or have it perfect, at release.

    • 1415 posts
    September 3, 2019 10:01 AM PDT

    You're entitled to your opinion, but I would rather wait another year for a complete virtual world that delivers on the experiences I'm hoping for, than play a one-dimensional adventuring-only dungeon simulator that I know I'll be burned out on short order because the only kind of gameplay it offers is hacking away at virtual monsters.  Been there, done that too many times, and I'm frankly sick of it.  That's a personal thing, and I respect that you and others might feel differently.  It doesn't change my opinion.

    The right answer in my book will always be to do what's needed to release a complete and compelling world.  It doesn't have to be perfect - nothing ever is - and there are some things (like housing) that I believe can truly wait until expansions to be implemented without seriously harming the game's viability.  Crafting, however, is not one of those things.

    • 256 posts
    September 3, 2019 11:00 AM PDT

    Nephele said:

    You're entitled to your opinion, but I would rather wait another year for a complete virtual world that delivers on the experiences I'm hoping for, than play a one-dimensional adventuring-only dungeon simulator that I know I'll be burned out on short order because the only kind of gameplay it offers is hacking away at virtual monsters.  Been there, done that too many times, and I'm frankly sick of it.  That's a personal thing, and I respect that you and others might feel differently.  It doesn't change my opinion.

    The right answer in my book will always be to do what's needed to release a complete and compelling world.  It doesn't have to be perfect - nothing ever is - and there are some things (like housing) that I believe can truly wait until expansions to be implemented without seriously harming the game's viability.  Crafting, however, is not one of those things.

     

    I whole heartedly agree!

    • 82 posts
    September 3, 2019 12:06 PM PDT

    I can't really picture a release without some form of crafting. Suggesting skipping it altogether to speed release seems like a dangerous form of impatience that would undermine the game's ability to generate lasting fun, necessary time sinks, alternate pathways to accomplishment, etc. If I suggested leaving dungeons and bosses out of the initial release, I suspect a pitchfork-wielding mob would form within minutes. With Pantheon being something of a successor to Vanguard and Everquest, I suspect a fair amount of interest in the game stems from wanting to see some of their strengths revisited. I know for me, personally, if Pantheon's crafting feels at all like VG's, I'll be more than happy. I'm not saying epic quests for max-level recipes or rare, boss-dropped recipes need to be in right away, but a tier of gear per crafting material doesn't sound like too big of an ask. They've got the tools for creating an infinite number of items with unique stats if there's to be gear in the game at all. A UI and unique appearance per tier does equate to significant development time, but I only sleep nude; I don't adventure that way.

    Another reason I can't picture a fantasy-MMORPG like this launching without crafting is the dependence on gear for the adventuring sphere and crafting's ability to supplement that. Imagine for a second you just formed a group for your starting area's first dungeon. It does not go well, because your tank is practically naked at level 8 and cannot stay alive. You notice he is only wearing the level one starter breastplate, maybe some socks and a loin cloth. Your healer cannot keep the tank alive without drawing aggro from the tank's limited, low-level abilities and stats, and everyone keeps wiping on what should be appropriate-level content. Typically, this is where me or someone like me would say, "Hey, I spent an hour or two farming tin and leveling armorsmithing last night - you guys want these placeholder items I made?" Bam, your tank finally has pants, a shiny new +Str and AC breastplate, and your healer gets a nice mace and shield, each with +5 mana. Your rogue sports a shiny new dagger. Someone else whips out a robe for your enchanter with that precious +1 AC that keeps them alive a second or two longer when some noob breaks their mez. Suddenly, your tank is holding threat, your healer isn't ripping out their hair, you're not wiping anymore, and you're having fun - since nobody noticed it was you who broke the mez. ;-) Crafting often acts as a supplement for holes in dropped gear, especially when your tank is sporting a measly 3 AC in his loin cloth and Dented Breastplate of Scrubbery. Judging by the way the best drops will be found deeper in dungeons, crafting may be a saving grace and also the designed foundation for gear. And judging by what's been said about itemization and stat creep, it may be a huge, even necessary, boon.

    I'd really love a well-rounded game for release, since we've all been waiting and hoping for just that. I would not like more of the same release-before-ready and kill-the-game-before-it-gets-going nonsense that seems to be the trend nowadays. Nobody should have to suffer through a release just so they can brag about how miserable they were a few months later. We've waited a good bit already and have a deal to wait yet. Unless you're terminally ill or terminally impatient, I see little reason to look for content to cut at this point.


    This post was edited by DagNabbit at September 3, 2019 12:07 PM PDT
    • 82 posts
    September 3, 2019 12:11 PM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    At some point you have to cut features to release a product to start earning some revenue so that you can then go back and include those features.  You cannot have it all, and/or have it perfect, at release.

    Dev teams also tend to get pared down after release, so now, rather than later, is the best opportunity to get the development right (unless money is a significant enough issue).

    • 57 posts
    September 4, 2019 6:40 AM PDT

     

    I don't want to sacrifice anything, but with that said. I don't agree with this whole take forever if you need forever to finish the game. I'd love to see VR hire about another 15 plus programmers to speed up the release date. That seems to be forgotten. You do not have to change path and cut things out of the game to speed up development if you are able to hire more people. Crafting has always got the shaft in my own personal opinion in every MMORPG I have played.( That includes EQ ) I am reluctant to sacrifice anything when it comes to crafting. Yes I'm also one of them people that wants the game to go live a.s.a.p.. Like I already said. Sacrificing any gaming mechanics and putting out an unfinished game is not the only way to speed up development. I believe it was Ben that said they are fully funded to develop PRoTF and they will use all pledges going forward to hire more people to speed up development. I was paraphrasing and not quoting word for word what was said. However that was the gist of it.  I'll try to fine that again so I can cut and paste it here. 

     

     

    • 1695 posts
    September 4, 2019 7:43 AM PDT

    DagNabbit said:

    Vandraad said:

    At some point you have to cut features to release a product to start earning some revenue so that you can then go back and include those features.  You cannot have it all, and/or have it perfect, at release.

    Dev teams also tend to get pared down after release, so now, rather than later, is the best opportunity to get the development right (unless money is a significant enough issue).

    Maybe for a game that is released then nothing else is done, but this is an MMO.  Expansion are part of the genre.  If VR doesn't immediately begin work on the first expansion when the game is released, well, they are effing stupid.  Why pare down when you'll just need to ramp up again almost immediately?

    • 1 posts
    September 5, 2019 11:51 AM PDT

    One of my favorite aspects of MMOs is the crafting. I'd rather the game be delayed with a robust crafting system, or see the questing system take a hit, then see another watered-down version of WoW's crafting system. Too many MMOs do this. This best crafting system I've seen so far was EQ2's original crafting system before they simplified it. Interacting with the machines/forges/looms/etc. was amazing and constructing a backpack from multiple crafting professions (blacksmith for buckles, leatherworker for the back plate, etc.) made me feel like I was actually making each backpack, instead of WoW where I click "craft 20 sacks" and watch a little bar fill on my screen 20 times...

    Not to mention EQ2's quality system where we could make crude/fair/elite versions of things. That was amazing as well!

    As well as issues occuring like bubbles in the metal, and we as crafters had to apply the appropriate techniques to counteract the bad things!

    Make crafting hard so that it actually matters, and everyone and their dog doesn't have 10 alt characters with each profession covered because it's so easy to do. I also wouldn't mind seeing durability on items so that there is no end-game over-saturation. Thus, make player-made crafting the best or second-best (if you desire raid drops to be the best -- which I don't because I hate RNG raid drops boiling down to .05% chance of this raid meaning anything), and make everything break eventually so that the auction house isn't sitting on 1000 pieces of end-game armor that no one needs because everyone already has their end-game armor which will last them until the next expansion's raid dungeon. For example, give a helmet 1000 HP, and when it's 0/1000 it breaks and needs to be repaired by an armorsmith (blacksmith is something different). When the armorsmith repairs it, its max durability decreases to like 900, until it eventually has a max durability of 1 and only lasts a few hits. This will require the adventurer to purchase a new helmet eventually and keep end-game armorsmiths/weaponsmiths -- and the items they craft -- valued and not just sitting in the auction house gathering dust.

     

    • 943 posts
    September 6, 2019 4:43 AM PDT

    Taking another shot at this more in the vein of:

    1)      Crafting must be live when the game launches

    2)      Crafting must be viable from day one (new recipes can be added as the new content is added)

    To that end the skeleton of crafting must be in place at the sacrifice of some preferred quality of life or preferred game play experience.

    What MUST be in:

    1)      The time dependency of grinding crafting experience.  You can always make crafting take less time but getting players to accept crafting taking longer than before feels like a nerf that hurts new players.

    2)      Item balancing of Dropped items, basic resource crafted items, Rare dropped items, rare resource crafted items (sometimes salvaged from rare drops), Raid dropped items and Raid resource crafted items (again salvaging raid drops).  I would put the power level of items stacking in that order but not a big step between items in the same tier, maybe even just being able to make whatever you need that doesn’t have a good equivalent from drops.

    3)      The material usage > exp gain > salvage/retry losses > node rarity ratios need to be mapped out in such a way that you can practice your crafter vertically with a reasonable amount of separation from the harvesting sphere but making player wanted items requires interaction from the harvesting sphere.

    4)      The rough idea of how crafting itemization will work into the system.  Not everything will need to be live at launch as the initial simple main vertical progression may not require it.

    5)      Enough recipes to make the above function be they be one input one output final products or one input one output subcomponents with template assembly designs where the results are the sum of the subcomponents.

    The above is mostly going to be required for launch even if crafting isn’t available at launch as it directly links to the long term game balance and itemization.  They are mostly design decisions that need to be at least roughly established within an order of magnitude of the final values.  Short cutting them will not really save any time and may actually make the game take longer in beta if the item balance was not already firmly established.

    Stuff that Can wait but would prefer not:

    1)      Pleasant and engaging crafting mini game to make the time dependency an enjoyable experience and not just a few clicks then a duration bar to count down.

    2)      Crafting writs/quests (this will be important long term but ultimately is a quality of life system that will take a lot of scripting and coding to make function that could delay launch an could be added post launch to the enjoyment of players)

    3)      Immersive animations and sounds while crafting (this is cool and adds to the experience from something menu and inventory based to something you feel you are really doing).  At launch they still could be fairly simple just be wary of using the same sound over and over.

    4)      Group crafting mechanics should exist from the get go.  A lot of this depends on tree vs crafting class and how abilities are parceled out.  Would love to see a shared crafting energy system so that the best items can only be crafted by a group of crafters running through a minigame together.

    Most of the above can definitely take both art and programing time.  The design needs to be mapped out before launch but it all could be added in the first year and only improve crafting game play with each addition but not fundamentally change how crafting functions or its place in the world.

    What Should wait for post launch:

    1)      Appearance customization.  Would love to be a fashion designer at the same time as being a crafting item designer but ultimately that’s going to be really art intensive when all the race/sex models are considered.  Each mini content patch could add a sub set of new looks and over time there would be a lot of choices but at first only one or two models with several color/bump maps for each item type should suffice.  Like grittier game looks anyway, hate the WoW cartoon look and the Asian MMO skin and glitter looks.

    2)      Non adventuring sphere crafting.  This is kinda a no brainer but adding carpentry (different from wooden weapon/armor) before we have boats and houses is silly.  There could be other subsets of the crafting tree that could just be inactive at launch because its items are not in and not needed yet but in the future will be.

    Hope this is more in mind with what you were looking for Neph

    • 28 posts
    September 8, 2019 7:20 PM PDT

    I have not posted in a bit but wanted to for this one. I’m going to copy and paste bits and pieces of what has been said to help give my opinion because I share a lot of the same sentiments if not slightly different. I also want it to be know I don’t want anything to be sacrificed but I think Vander said it best “I don't want to sacrifice anything, but with that said. I don't agree with this whole take forever if you need forever to finish the game. “Vander”

    The stuff that can wait for post lunch in my opinion.

    1)      Appearance customization.  Would love to be a fashion designer at the same time as being a crafting item designer but ultimately that’s going to be really art intensive when all the race/sex models are considered.  Each mini content patch could add a sub set of new looks and over time there would be a lot of choices but at first only one or two models with several color/bump maps for each item type should suffice.  Like grittier game looks anyway, hate the WoW cartoon look and the Asian MMO skin and glitter looks. “Trasak”

    2)      Non adventuring sphere crafting.  This is kinda a no brainer but adding carpentry (different from wooden weapon/armor) before we have boats and houses is silly.  There could be other subsets of the crafting tree that could just be inactive at launch because its items are not in and not needed yet but in the future will be. “Trasak”  You could at the minimum have the location and some npc in place setup looking like there building something for future stuff.

    3)      Crafting writs/quests (this will be important long term but ultimately is a quality of life system that will take a lot of scripting and coding to make function that could delay launch an could be added post launch to the enjoyment of players) “Trasak”  You could at the minimum have the location and some npc in place setup looking like there building something for future stuff.

    4] Detailed recipe book can be omitted at least for now. ”Chehalis”

    5] On the fly crafting, or mobile crafting ability—such as forge/tailor kit in your pocket—could be omitted at the start. Forcing folks to craft in designated towns/hamlets for now vs the ability to break out the anvil while flouncing through the countryside would be fine as long as (if it is the eventual intent of the designers) eventually the ability to possible aid the group/raid in this way was possible (content allowing). ”Chehalis”

    6] A certain level of simplicity/generic-ness in component graphics could also be reasonable since I presume as more and more craftable items will be discovered, their associated component graphics can also be designed over time and are not all needed immediately at launch (unless someone plans on maxing out the first day.../looks at Nephele). ”Chehalis” Please make it complex and engaging and hard enough you cant max it out in one sitting

    7] I might be ok with a detailed ui of the recipes/-book not being in the game and a basic ui being used (temporarily?). “Barin999”

    8] Crafting writs, especially repeatable ones, can be skipped for me. Wouldn't miss them if they weren't there at the start. But I would go into them if they were added later on. “Barin999”

    9]The location of workstations or tradeskill npc's might be standardized, instead of being spread out in Terminus, in distant dangerous places etc. It would ofc be a shame, to skip on that because it's all depth and content for crafters in the game. But somehow I'd get it at launch if that wasn't in place. So you'd have the usual npc in town selling all the recipes. “Barin999” Make the crafting out in the world be higher lvl crafting and make it one of the first big content updates shortly after release.

    These are just things I have seen and agreed could wait for post lunch. Most of these could just have npc being depicted as building stuff in the towns and stuff like that at lunch then shortly after lunch a content update is pushed giving use these missing features because most of these are late game features.


    This post was edited by COCOMOJOE at September 8, 2019 7:21 PM PDT
    • 2506 posts
    September 11, 2019 7:23 AM PDT

     A game with 3/4 of a crafting system, done well, will keep us interested and leave us with hope that it will be *really* good once they get around to adding the last 1/4. 

    A game with the full crafting system done in a mediocre manner will convince us that the developer either doesn't care or lacks the ability to get it right.

    So without giving any specifics at all - I urge that effort be taken to get stand-alone portions of the system done very well if the choice is to have a broader system done not so well. 

    Thus if the choice is to have cooking and woodworking mediocre or to have just woodworking done quite well - save the pots and pans for later, letting us know it is on the to-do list.


    This post was edited by dorotea at September 11, 2019 7:23 AM PDT