Forums » The Enchanter

Does gear matter for Enchanters?

    • 32 posts
    July 29, 2019 6:59 AM PDT

    Hey ya'll.

    Deeps need to deep, tanks need to stay alive, and healers need to keep everyone alive - all of which scales with gear...

    Is Enchanter is the least "gear dependent" class?

    • 1627 posts
    July 29, 2019 9:01 AM PDT

    It should, however it's done, gear should at least manage :

     

    -Resist chance

    -Debuff power and/or duration

    -Mana replenished due to damage inflicted

    -Survival

     

    Some of them are known, like the nuke replenishing mana "should" at least scale from stats. The others, I'm pretty sure they will do. The only problem will come from stacking new spell ranks with uber gear which might throw stat scaling stellar on mezzes, but I'm sure it can be balanced with the level of your target.

    • 1632 posts
    July 29, 2019 9:01 AM PDT

    This will be an impossible question to answer until we understand the impact of stats on their abilities, and on things such as AC/evasion/health.  This likely won't happen until people get in and start playing the game, especially without an NDA attached.

    • 469 posts
    July 29, 2019 12:13 PM PDT

    LaissezFaire said:

    Hey ya'll.

    Deeps need to deep, tanks need to stay alive, and healers need to keep everyone alive - all of which scales with gear...

    Is Enchanter is the least "gear dependent" class?

    I don't know about being the least gear dependent or not. But as MauvaisOeil pointed out, you'll need it to boost your survivability and mana resources. This could also be enhanced by the need for multiple color manas, unless that changes before launch.

    One thing I've said over the years as MMOs have more and more eliminated downtime betwee group fights is how that affects gear for several classes. If your mana and hps regen rapidly once out of combat you've essentially degraded the value of having items that have affects on them like HP and mana regeneration. I know several casters from my EQ days that squeed with joy when they got that first Flowing Thought 1 item. Downtime may not be a joyous thought to many, but it was linked directly to these sorts of items. So whether that will be the case for enchanters with Pantheon, still too early to say as we don't know how the finality of downtimes will work. But I think at the very least it is safe to say gear will be needed and useful for enchanters for at minimum resistances and resources as well as stat enhancements and maybe procs. Whether those resources will include better mana regeneration or colored mana, we'll have to wait and see.


    This post was edited by Kratuk at July 29, 2019 12:13 PM PDT
    • 363 posts
    July 29, 2019 4:14 PM PDT

    Not quite, in fact Enchanters in EQ were more dependent on gear. This was mainly because caster DPS only had to worry about Intelligence then Mana. Then of course Health/Saves. Intelligence didn't alter damage at all and was only related to a mana pool. Even that didn't apply towards their DPS as that was more dependent on their mana regen which required an Enchanter or Bard. Necromancer of course doesn't apply. Mana pool merely allowed them to do burst for longer, but that just meant more mana to regen. This was why mana pool wasn't a determinant on total DPS of performance over time.

    Enchanter in EQ did have a modifier as the only stat in the game that had a modifier for spells. That stat was Charisma. Enchanters needed to push Charisma, Intelligence, Mana, Health, Saves but also, due to the need to take a few hits, they would want to put points into Agility and AC. As a Dark Elf Enchanter for about seven years, those were two other stats I did push for since there was a noticeable difference in ability to tank compared to a High Elf for instance who didn't push Agility or AC. This allowed more evasion and misses as well as lower peak damage against you. So in all, Enchanter was more gear dependent than the other Pure Casters and even more than the Healers. You could technically deal damage as a Wizard while naked and perform as well as one in raid gear. Your damage output was the same, only that the raid geared Wizard could do more in a given time. Since output was based on mana regeneration, when parsed, I found the outcome was no different. What the raid geared wizard allowed was more surviveability, better saves, AC and health.

    Now, in Pantheon this is tricky because abilities use a host of stats for their modifiers and act as a type of coefficient. The difference here is you have to factor in the class. Wizards as of now only really deal damage and have a tiny bit of utility. Their primary stats are Intelligence, Strength, Wisdom and Dexterity. Then there's the secondary stat they need called Constitution. Whereas Intelligence and Constitution are baselines, Strength, Dexterity and Wisdom are required for their Fire line, Ice line and Arcane line. Aside for that, that's it.

    With Enchanters in this game, as of now, they do more than damage and aren't restricted to merely three lines. They have Mesmerizes, Charms, Confuses, Mem Blurs, Roots, Direct Damage, Damage over Time, Silences, Stuns, Damage absorbtion Shields (Runeskin), Melee Hastes, Spell Hastes, Mana Regeneration, Mana Drains, Melee Slows, Spell Slows, Melee Damage Reduction, Illusions, Faction Adjustments, Resistance Debuffs, and then spells like Malison's Lucid Dream/Nightmare. There's a far greater grasp and that means requiring, as of now, Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. Given the range, it may include Agility, Stamina and or others such as AC value (such as with Runeskin). Then on top of that, as a Crowd Controller, you are expected to take some hits and that may be where Health, AC and other values are important. 

    In general, Enchanters in EQ and in Pantheon are typically one of the more gear intensive mana using classes in the game. It just so happens that they are also one of the more skill dependent classes overall.


    This post was edited by Janus at July 29, 2019 5:13 PM PDT
    • 32 posts
    July 31, 2019 5:10 AM PDT

    Fascinating! Thank you all!

    • 80 posts
    October 4, 2019 12:52 AM PDT
    Wizard gear had spell casting haste and spell casting damage multipliers on it + flowing thought for mana regen.

    A naked Wizard would not perform the same as a geared one, nor even close Janus.
    • 363 posts
    October 4, 2019 11:05 AM PDT

    I'm talking about the base game, Ezrael. Spell casting haste on items was much later. There were also no damage multipliers at the time. As for Flowing Thought, that's mana regen and while technically it was a good bit before Spell Haste and much earlier than Damage Multipliers. It was also an added feature later in the game's life.

    This is also more specifically about stats, and there were no stats or items that generally gave you better performance as a Wizard. FT Boots in CT when the revamp occured after Luclin went live and the same with the Prayer Shawl (The first FT item) and was a few months after Velious released are the exceptions and were the methods but again, this fit under regen, similar to Clarity. P99 for instance stops at Velious release which is why they don't have any FT items and refrained from releasing the latter segment of the Ring and Shawl quest chain given the relative point in the expansion they were finished by the developers.

    A level 50 Wizard in Vanilla Everquest was in fact no different in terms of performance either with or without gear. More mana meant a larger burst pool on the first fight of the group but from there, you're generally relegated to dealing damage based on your mana regeneration rate.


    This post was edited by Janus at October 4, 2019 11:15 AM PDT
    • 80 posts
    October 4, 2019 9:22 PM PDT
    Ok, so the very old and dated portion of the game only.

    A perspective that’s not representative of modern MMO or Pantheon from what we’ve seen so far.
    • 363 posts
    October 5, 2019 6:51 PM PDT

    "Ok, so the very old and dated portion of the game only."

    We're talking about Everquest as it was. When referencing it and with regard to the topic, this is the Everquest that is both emulated today and what is then juxtaposed with regard to Pantheon development.

     

    "A perspective that’s not representative of modern MMO or Pantheon from what we’ve seen so far."

    Everquest today even in the mess it is right now is still not indicative of the modern MMO. That's sort of the issue with what EQ has become. Not to make light however, of what has become of the modern MMO. Pantheon is pulling from the original aspect that was Everquest as I detailed above but with elements of VG and pulling from mechanics that worked through the years after EQ to include stat specialization and the like.

    What you see in Pantheon that contradicts Everquest like Soft Specialization, Disposition and the like are not elements of Everquest. 

    • 80 posts
    October 5, 2019 6:57 PM PDT

    But the OP is asking about how necessary gear is for Enchanters in Pantheon, not 1999 Everquest. What we’ve seen from streams, tooltips and heard from Joppa himself so far is that gear will matter and make a difference for Enchanters as stats will affect abilities like mezz to change the potency vs duration. That is only a taster as well as we haven’t seen all updated tooltips and the formulas are still a work in progress.

    I don’t see the relevance of bringing up a lengthy Everquest story from 1999 for this discussion, the game mechanics in Pantheon are not being designed as a carbon copy of that.

    You have a strange tendency to go off on one during any discussion here or on Discord and talk about what a fantastic Enchanter you were in old EQ and how you knew the game mechanics better than anyone else.


    This post was edited by Ezrael at October 5, 2019 7:33 PM PDT
    • 363 posts
    October 5, 2019 7:34 PM PDT

    Yes, within Pantheon, stats will be all over the place as going by the tooltips. It's one of the dependencies of their soft-spec system. I was using a basis from the Enchanter in EQ1 because of what stats did from outside the soft-specialization. Especially with how much of it is basically copied over into Pantheon. It was also a reference as to something I would not like to see carry over obviously.

    Although not relating to our exchange, my question ultimately is whether or not Agility and AC will be as pivotal to the class as it was as a tertiary desirability when playing with its EQ variant. If we specialize for our core abilities, how would that affect our ability to deal with taking damage if we don't have enough points in Agility or push for AC, for instance. Outside of soft spec, we really only have EQ combat mechanics to go by since they were basically copied over for the most part going by the content we have avilable. Because of that, analogies and references never hurt.

    "You have a strange tendency to go off on one during any discussion here or on Discord and talk about what a fantastic Enchanter you were in old EQ and how you knew the game mechanics better than anyone else."

    I speak of Enchanters here in the Enchanter section and in the CC section of the Discord. I will rarely bring it up in general chat and typically, only if pertinent to the discussion. I never said I knew the mechanics better than anyone else as I'm sure there are those who knew more or played better than I did. I'd advise you not to make this personal and stick to the topic here or in question.


    This post was edited by Janus at October 5, 2019 7:35 PM PDT
    • 683 posts
    October 7, 2019 8:36 AM PDT

    I'm sure gear will "matter" for all classes - otherwise there will be very little reward in a game like this.  The ultimate reward in PRotF will be the ph4t l00tz.  Risk versus reward is the balancing act that will keep players engaged (or not).