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Crafter's Roundtable: Post-crafting customization

    • 1337 posts
    July 1, 2019 11:18 AM PDT

    It's been a little too long since we posted a Crafter's Roundtable, so here's a meaty one to sink our teeth into for a bit.

    Many games include a way to modify or customize items after they have been created. WoW has enchanting, EQ2 has augmentation, FFXIV has materia, and so on.

    Should Pantheon have a system that allows players to add stats to items they already have, or not? What are your thoughts about this kind of system?

    (Note from Nephele: For the summer, we're switching back to the older roundtable format where we just post the questions directly, rather than gathering Pantheon Crafters staff comments first and posting it all together. We hope everyone will still take time to voice their thoughts in each roundtable that we post however!)

    • 149 posts
    July 4, 2019 12:49 AM PDT

    I think there should be ways to customize your gear, but this should stop from legendary gear and up (mastercrafted is not legendary in my eyes).

    This so you can add resists for particular fights, and for regular grouping you focus on another stat, effect or environment. Perhaps even make these low cost and work like a 'buff' with a certain duration.

     

    The upgrade path, where you consume other items to strenghten an existing one with a chance of failure, as discussed in an earlier thread, should be seperate from this.

     


    This post was edited by decarsul at July 4, 2019 12:50 AM PDT
    • 298 posts
    July 5, 2019 6:22 AM PDT

    Customizable appearances for crafted items (not looted items) would be a great addition, I think. Likely you can't have it be freeform, and it would have to draw from a bank of available assets, but it would be a nice compromise between people who think Pretty Princess Dress Up is the heart of online gaming (me) and people who think gear should have set apperances to reflect your achievements (me). 

    An ability to switch out augmentations (or whatever system is used) to balance resists or stats for an upcoming fight would be cool, too. I like when a game gives me sets to pick and choose between instead of one item that is the unrivaled best item for a given slot in all situations. It adds depth to the equipment system. Crafting would be a natural avenue for something like this.

    • 1568 posts
    July 5, 2019 7:58 AM PDT

    Nephele said:

    Should Pantheon have a system that allows players to add stats to items they already have, or not? What are your thoughts about this kind of system?

    Oh, indeed they should.  I really liked what EQ1 introduced with the Lost Dungeons of Norrath expansion, the augment slots.  Granted the system did have problems, but the core concept was quite good.  Pantheon could take that idea and open it up such that a player can take an item and apply to it some item to adjust a single stat. 

    Depending upon the stat you wish to adjust, the item in question could be something mundane (a bit of refined mithril that sharpens a blade to increase its damage) to something magical (an imbued gem that increases the INT of an earring).  Naturally there would need to be limits placed upon just how high you can adjust a given stat and that once the item was adjusted, it cannot be undone.  Once and done only.

    I would not place any limitations on what stat could be adjusted, or even added from scratch.  You could take a simple Fine Steel Hammer, and because you are a Cleric and want some more +WIS, you add to the hammer an imbued gem that gives the hammer +2 WIS which is a stat it did not originally possess.

    Min-maxers would really go for something like this, able to seriously boost a single stat they felt was most important to their class, by adding just that one stat to every item they wear/carry.  A Wizard migth decide to add +INT to every item to maximize their manapool, or perhaps, do half +INT half +Manaregen.  As a Shaman I would definitely look into the half +WIS half +Manaregen.

    • 298 posts
    July 5, 2019 8:46 AM PDT

    I don't think they necessarily need to be one-and-done either.

    Being able to remove the booster item with a consumable item either vendor purchased, or player-made with vendor components, is a good currency sink and allows for situational customization, which is a hallmark of the Pantheon encounter design philosophy.

    • 1568 posts
    July 5, 2019 9:08 AM PDT

    Chanus said:

    I don't think they necessarily need to be one-and-done either.

    Being able to remove the booster item with a consumable item either vendor purchased, or player-made with vendor components, is a good currency sink and allows for situational customization, which is a hallmark of the Pantheon encounter design philosophy.

    I can see your point.  A question though: Should the boosters, once applied and then removed, be destroyed or returned to the player?  Personally I think they should be destroyed otherwise these will stay in circulation permanently.  If boosters are player created, and are not destroyed when removed, would quickly erode the ability of new players to make/sell boosters.

    • 298 posts
    July 5, 2019 9:12 AM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    Chanus said:

    I don't think they necessarily need to be one-and-done either.

    Being able to remove the booster item with a consumable item either vendor purchased, or player-made with vendor components, is a good currency sink and allows for situational customization, which is a hallmark of the Pantheon encounter design philosophy.

    I can see your point.  A question though: Should the boosters, once applied and then removed, be destroyed or returned to the player?  Personally I think they should be destroyed otherwise these will stay in circulation permanently.  If boosters are player created, and are not destroyed when removed, would quickly erode the ability of new players to make/sell boosters.



    Having them be destroyed and need to be reacquired would work. You could stockpile the ones you know you'll want to use, but they'll still need to have been created and acquired instead of simply being swapped in and out endlessly.

    • 668 posts
    July 5, 2019 1:30 PM PDT

    Yes please Nephele, I would love augments. +Charisma on my lute, +Charisma on my shawm, +Charisma on my feathered cap!

    I prefer the augments to be removable (so you can adjust if desired), but definitely destroy on remove to avoid swamping the server.

    I would like augments made by crafters (obviously), but installed / removed by players. Perhaps you need a special tool (also crafted?) to effect removal.

    Here are some questions:

    1) Do you limit the number of equipment slots that can be augmented? If you auggy everything from shoes to caps plus accessories and weapons it could run 11+ slots. If you make it possible to up a prime stat (oh, say, CHARISMA) by 11 x whatever_the_max_auggy_is you wind up with legendary rockstars versus bieber bards depending on the time / plat you can invest.  I am fine with that, by the way, but some careful thought / tuning is required to ensure you don’t create absurdly overpowered characters. Or as Vandraad said - limit how high you can adjust any given stat (see soft / hard cap discussions in other threads).

    2) Do you give low level crafters early recipes for weapon auggies (small additional % to hit; small damage boost) but no stats and then scale up to mastercrafting being capable of big stat boosts, or just have all augments reserved for the high end? I prefer systems that spread the wealth and allow lower level crafters some fun.

    3) Are all items at all levels capable of receiving an augment, or only crafted or high end items? Does lower level gear only have 0-1 auggy slots, and then higher gear have progressively more? If lower end gear only accepts lower level augments that gives all crafters some chance to make meaningful items, not just rush crafting to max cap.

    4) Should augments be limited to just the usual boosts to stats / resistances? What about increasing swim speed, or slow breathing underwater [you still run out of air, but it takes longer - we can’t all be Myr]? How about higher jump or dmg reduction on fall? Better distance vision? One-time port to bind? Actually, that last one could scale, 1x port if crafted at low level up to 3-5x if made by a master.  Probably not worth an auggy slot, better as a separate item. You get the idea though, what might be some useful utility augments?


    This post was edited by Kumu at July 5, 2019 1:33 PM PDT
    • 2 posts
    July 6, 2019 10:59 AM PDT

    Not just adding augments...but, I've never understood why it is that a craftsman who is a master of their craft could not deconstruct items found that fall within their pervue.  I mean, as someone who works with textiles IRL, I can generally figure out a pattern and repair or even unravel it and reuse the still good threads/yarn/material.  Same thing for much of the leather working I have done over the years. I may not have known how to make the saddle; but, I sure knew how to take it apart.

     

    And, improving on something already existing, definitely.

     

    I was thinking on crafting/modifying ideas and liked the idea of certain limitations in place on enchanted items = it had to do with a conflict between the spells/effects involved.  Something similar could be done - about like a "resonance" system or something where each type carries its own resonance and that grows exponentially with each application.  This means there is a finite amount of stacking that can be done; but, it can be done at any time - as long as it doesn't disturb/clash with the existant resonance. This means, you would run a risk of completely annihilating the piece that was modified if you miscalulated and you could cause damage to an entire set if it worked on that one piece but the resonance of that piece then clashed with the rest of the gear you had on.

     

    Pretty complicated and not likely to be implemented this late in the day - but...it made crafting and item enchanting much more viable and useful....and, makes it reasonable that crafters would be beneficial even with major drops.  Especially with the ability to, say, add sleeves to that sleevless tunic and up the armor value, and then drop an enchant on the tunic that increased agility or some such - as long as the agility didn't interfere with the rest of the enchants already in place.

    • 32 posts
    July 6, 2019 11:15 AM PDT

    I am for anything that keeps crafting as a vital role in the game. I'm also mature enough to know that it does require balancing to portect the integrity of the gaming economy. I have read a lot of great articles on the subject of trade skills. 

     

    This doesn't sound bad to me at all. I'd like VR to shine a light on crafting a little bit more than they have. To the best of my knowledge all they have talked about so far is the economy whitout addressing the heart of many questions / ideals put forth by all of us that want to see Pantheon succeed.

     

    I wait as patiently as I can for that day to come.  ( P.S.  Do "NOT" add epic weapons like you did in EQ.  Epic weapons done that way are the DEATH of all weaponsmiths. )

     

    Augments are a good thing as far as my opinion goes and I absolutely believe augmenst should always be "MADE" by "CRAFTERS".