Forums » Crafting

Alchemy (Poison Specialist) vs Rogues "Poison Craft"

    • 339 posts
    April 14, 2019 1:24 AM PDT

    So how would it work? In my opinion Alchemy with Poison spec should be pretty much the most desirable crafting spec for rogues, but if they have separate skill for creating poisons wouldn't it make Alchemy redundant for them? I would rather see the passive that strenghtens effect, prolongs their duration and adds bonuses to crafting poisons like chance to add additional effect or chance of creating more vials.

    • 977 posts
    April 14, 2019 5:19 AM PDT

    From what has been said in the streams the Rogues “Poison Craft” is going to be more of a choice of which special ability to apply to their weapons than an actual craft. It may be flavor skinned as “Poison Craft” but in reality it is a line of self only weapon buffs.

    We are still eagerly awaiting Ceythos opening up about crafting. Personally I see Potions and Poisons to be too similar to have them be different alchemical specializations. I would have split it into solid alchemy and liquid alchemy. Solid alchemy would make some devices but largely create and transform base materials into magical materials needed in other crafting. Liquid Alchemy would focus on Potions and Poisons and special solvents that are also needed by other crafting masters.

    This honestly highlights why I think skill trees are better than specialization for crafting masteries. Having to pick either or means you need to build both equally but that is your only choice. A crafter may prefer not to go to either extreme and be more of a generalist but that is not really an option in a hard coded specialization decision.

     

     

    • 339 posts
    April 14, 2019 6:34 AM PDT

    Personally i don't like locked crafting and think that it should only be limited by time and resources we spend on them. That being said I get why they're doing what they're doing - social aspect of buying what you need from others plays major role in this game - though on another hand plenty of people will just make alts in order to craft what they need for themselves and skip market hunt (honestly I hate shopping both in rl as well as in gaming -.-).

    • 977 posts
    April 14, 2019 7:51 AM PDT

    I personally prefer a tiered skill point tree with each skill point taking more experience to unlock and diminishing returns on additional ranks of each tier.

    For crafting all crafting would give you a general experience pool to draw from to buy skill points. Those skill points could be spent on the crafting tree unlocking knowledge of materials, crafting minigame abilities, and additional optional materials. Each of these nodes would unlock the ability with the first point and increase the effect or efficiency of that skill with additional points but a diminishing returns.

    In addition to needing to put point into the tree each node would have some appropriate crafting prerequisite to put the point. Basic iron work would require a certain mastery of operating the forge, like say successfully making 100 metal items, smelting 100 good quality or better iron ingots (low quality can always be resmelted) and have the Hammer work node unlocked.

    Once Basic Iron Work was unlocked you would be much more proficient in making iron items and work towards your Apprentice Blacksmith skill nodes and do your apprenticeship quest which unlocks special bonuses.

    Each tier is more specialized than the last, representing a greater and greater amount of game time focused in one area but also required to unlock the Journeyman, Master and Grand Master quests which unlock the same titles where the real goodies are. Rather than mastering one craft it could be possible to become a Journeyman in a handful of crafts with the same amount of time spent as reaching Grand master in one.

    As each skill point takes more and more crafting experience having one craft at Grand Master (say 100 points invested as a minimum) or 4 crafts at Journeyman (25 points each) both take the same amount of crafting experience. Pushing a second craft to Grand Master or all 4 of the second version to master would take roughly the same amount of time but 10 to 100 times as much time as the first set.

    This system also opens up the idea of cross discipline crafts as well. A magic engineer could require Journeyman in both Iron Work and Bronze work as well as Apprenticeship in Alchemy, Scribing (cause math is a tradeskill) and Carpentry. The Magic Engineer nodes may have a higher return then your standard Master nodes as it has such a high entery point cost. Or not, maybe Magic engineer is rare because it takes twice as long to get to Grand Master as any pure craft would.

    I would love to see the combat side also have similar style of character building but that would be for a different game.

     

    • 55 posts
    April 15, 2019 4:12 AM PDT

    and you forgot deleveling when you spend to much time on another craft than your grandmaster one. :-)

    • 977 posts
    April 15, 2019 5:04 AM PDT

    Pufug said:

    and you forgot deleveling when you spend to much time on another craft than your grandmaster one. :-)

    Wow that would be brutal.  Something along the lines of if you don't use a skill every X crafting Exp earned it begings to release/break the skill points invested in it.  If it completely fades then your total skill tally drops so its not as hard to re-earn it as it would be to get a new one but it will still hurt.  All pre-requisits count as being used when you use an advanced skill.

    That being said some way to release old skills either through attrition or deliberately breaking the skill point would be required.


    This post was edited by Trasak at April 15, 2019 5:04 AM PDT
    • 1714 posts
    April 15, 2019 10:57 AM PDT

    Trasak said:

     

    From what has been said in the streams the Rogues “Poison Craft” is going to be more of a choice of which special ability to apply to their weapons than an actual craft. It may be flavor skinned as “Poison Craft” but in reality it is a line of self only weapon buffs.

    I do not see why 'Poison Craft' could not product potions/vials that Rogues could sell to allow players to add short-term effects to their weapons.  To limit the craft to a self-only choice severly limits its applicability and also would mean Rogues could not take up other tradeskills they might really prefer to explore.

    • 977 posts
    April 15, 2019 11:14 AM PDT

    It has been said that there will be no adventure class specific crafting.  While that was a crafting sin that EQ had with poisons and alchemy. I do not believe any other MMO has had adventure class locked crafting.

    That being said maybe there is some room for rogues to be able to apply "poison" they made to others weapons.  It is not a crafting tree and would not lock out a rogue from picking any of the trees, even poison focused alchemy.  But realistically Poison Craft is a class ability not a player crafting discipline and there for should not have any more utility or duration than Summoner summoned objects.  Frankly Rogues should not want it to be either or the material cost for one of their class abilities would end up being a burden to using it. 


    This post was edited by Trasak at April 15, 2019 11:16 AM PDT
    • 15 posts
    April 27, 2019 6:25 PM PDT

    don't forget race locked.  If you wanted to tinker in EQ, you were a Gnome.  The End.

    I didn't have a problem with that.  Life's not perfectly balanced and even.