Forums » Crafting

"Needs" - dynamic crafting and gathering content

    • 1430 posts
    March 11, 2019 8:29 PM PDT

    This is a refinement of something that I have talked about before, so it may seem similar to things I've said in past discussions.  I'm posting it because I had one of those moments a short while ago where things just "clicked" in my brain and everything suddenly fit together with crystal clarity.  I'm posting this idea for everyone to read, comment, and expand upon.  It's something that I hope the game will do.

     

    Before I get to the idea itself, I wanted to do a quick rundown of my position on some things.  This will hopefully make it a bit easier to understand where the idea is coming from:

    1) I want crafting to be very integrated with the game world.  Just as players go out and adventure all throughout the world, players should also go out and craft or harvest all throughout the world.  It shouldn't just be an activity that's confined to cities.

    2) I like the idea of crafting quests, similar to what was seen in Vanguard - but I absolutely do NOT like the idea of repeatable crafting writs or work orders as seen in EQ2.  Content should be there to add story narrative to the crafter's journey, not as a grinding mechanism.

    3) I want NPC factions to really matter for crafting and gathering as well as for adventuring, and to be something that a player might choose to continue doing for a long period of time, rather than simply grinding the faction up to a certain level for some reward.

     

    4) I want crafters to be forced (somewhat) to travel in order to continue their advancement and progression, just as adventurers must.

     

    So, here is the idea:

    Structures and Conditions

    In the world, there are various buildings and structures.  Guard towers, merchant shops, inns, and so on.  We walk by them all the time, use their services.  But do we ever stop to think about the NPCs working there?  How do those structures get built?  How do they get repaired after bad weather or other events?  Where do the NPCs get replacement equipment and tools, or even lunch?

    What I propose is that each and every NPC structure and building in the game, or at least many of them, have a "condition" associated with it, that independently decays over time.

    Conditions work on a scale as follows:

    Destroyed - the building or structure is in an unusable state.  The NPCs that would be based there are simply not present or can't perform their function.

    Very poor - the building or structure needs serious repairs, the NPCs that are based at that structure are missing or barely able to perform their jobs.

    Poor - the building or structure needs repairs, the NPCs that are based at that structure are hindered from performing their jobs.

    Average - the building or structure is in decent shape, and the NPCs that are based there are able to function at normal levels.

    Good - the building or structure is in good repair, and the NPCs that are based there are functioning above average.

    Excellent - the building or structure is in great shape, and the NPCs that are based there are well-supplied and functioning at their peak.

     

     

    The Inn in the Wilderness - Part 1

    As an example of how conditions work, consider an Inn that sits along the road in the Wilderness.  The Inn offers a place for food and respite to travelers.  Merchants frequent it and do business with passing adventurers.  Guards stop there along their patrols to keep the roads safe.  Or at least, that's what happens when things are working.

    But what happens if that Inn falls into disrepair?  The innkeep has to raise prices because he's trying to keep the place running.  The merchants stop coming as often or have less of a selection and higher prices when they do.  The guards don't come through as often either, since they don't really want to go out of their way to stop by what's sure to be a ruin in the near future.

    So, as an example of how this works, let's say that our Inn has fallen on hard times and is in Very Poor condition.  The building itself has been damaged.  The guards almost never come by.  The innkeep only has the most basic supplies.  And the only merchant that ever shows up is a shady looking fellow who charges prices akin to highway robbery.

    In his desperation, the innkeep has posted a small bulletin board outside with a list of things he needs to try and improve the condition of his inn.  Given how bad things are, he's just focused on the basics right now.

    - Wooden planks and nails for performing repairs

    - Various gathered resources for the kitchen

    - Spears and crossbow bolts for the guards to use if they ever start coming by again.

    Players who are passing by have the opportunity to turn in some of those items to the innkeep via a nearby drop box.  When doing so, they'll be rewarded with a small amount of coin, as well as some faction standing.

     

    Improving Conditions

    Since buildings and structures can have conditions, and those conditions govern how the NPCs attached to those structures function, it becomes possible for players to help raise the condition of the building or structure.  This is done by fulfilling the Needs of the structure and its attached NPCs.

    In the case of my example of the Inn, the innkeep is fighting just to keep the place standing, so right now, his needs are very basic - things that are critical for him to make repairs and turn conditions around.  If players fulfill those needs however, the condition of the Inn improves.  The kitchen is stocked with basics, so the innkeeper has a better selection and slightly better prices.  The shady merchant is replaced by a few more reputable sorts with a better selection of things.  And the guards notice the change and start stopping by a little more often.

    But, just because the Inn is doing a little better doesn't mean that it still doesn't have Needs.  In fact, the Needs have evolved as the condition has improved.

     

    The Inn in the Wilderness - Part 2

    With his most critical needs now met, the Innkeep is able to focus more on making his Inn very successful.  In order to do this, he's going to need a lot of things however.  New dining tables and chairs, for starters - the furniture he has is mostly broken or barely holding together.  He'd also like to get some more exotic things for the kitchen, maybe some additional types of meats or ales to have on hand for a better menu.  He's also lobbying the kingdom's guards to create a permanent post at the Inn, so that instead of waiting for the weekly patrol, the patrol is based there - but to do that, he'll have to make sure they have supplies on hand to use.

     

    When players look at the innkeep's bulletin board they notice that his needs have changed and are now more complex than they used to be.  Instead of simple planks, food supplies, and weapons, now the inn needs finished furniture, cloth and leather, as well as some sets of armor and weaponry for the guards.  In addition, the innkeep wants to get a few barrels worth of good ale, as well as additional prepared foods such as smoked meat, cheeses, and so on.

    Of course, since the Innkeep's business is doing better now, he can afford to pay a bit more for these things when they're delivered.

     

    Evolving and Randomizing Needs

    As you can see from the example, as the condition of the building improves, it's needs evolve and change.  But things can go in the other direction as well.  If players neglect the needs of the Inn for long enough, or if an orc raid sweeps through or a violent storm occurs, the condition of the inn might degrade.  The building might now need repairs again, for example.  This means that those more basic needs will sometimes reappear, alongside more advanced needs.

    In game terms, fulfilling a need influences condition by some amount.  If we think of a building's condition as a scale from 0 to 10,000, then bringing wooden planks to help repair the building might improve that condition by 200 points.  Once the condition rises above a certain amount (let's say 4,000 for this example), new needs, like furniture, appear on the list, alongside any remaining old ones.  The key with these higher-level needs is that while they pay better in terms of coin, they may actually influence condition less.  This means that the higher a building's condition, the harder it becomes to influence it upwards.  It's still possible with concerted effort, but getting a building to Excellent condition (10,000) takes a serious amount of work.  At the same time, the rate of decay insures that if players stop contributing to a building's Needs, condition will begin to deteriorate.

    The other thing that's important about Needs is that they should be somewhat randomized.  The inn might not always actually need furniture.  Furniture is one of the needs that might pop up based on its condition, but if the innkeep just got new tables yesterday, he probably doesn't need any more for a bit.

    In the list of different potential needs for the Inn, each Need might have some different numbers associated with it:

    - Percentage chance for that Need to spawn at a certain condition.  Needs might be able to spawn on the list at multiple conditions

    - Amount of condition points generated by fulfilling the Need

    - Amount of coin/faction awarded by fulfilling the Need

     

    What this means is that some Needs could be more common than others.  For example, any time the Inn hits Very Poor condition, it's a safe bet that wood planks are needed.  However, at Poor and Average, there's still a chance the Inn needs more wood planks - just a smaller chance than if it were at Very Poor.

     

    Scaling the system out worldwide

    To explain how the idea works, I used a single example of a single building in a single zone.  But the point of this kind of system isn't that it's just selectively applied to one or two buildings here or there - it should ideally be applied to everything that makes sense, everywhere in the world.  Whether we're talking about an Inn, a stable, a guard tower, a blacksmith's shop, or even just a bridge across a river, there should be work *everywhere* for the crafters and gatherers who go looking for it.

    By fulfilling the Needs of the different buildings in the world, crafters and gatherers not only get to practice their trade and gain some coin and faction, but they also improve the services provided by those buildings as well.  Everything from better prices at merchants, to new services becoming available, to even just more and better-equipped guards on the roads to help keep them safe.  This means that now, instead of Needs just being a personal experience, they become a way for those crafters and gatherers to enhance the experience of everyone else as well.

     

    Logical Extensions

    I've tried to outline the basics of the idea here, but this could be expanded further:

    - The game could track the overall condition of zones as an aggregate of the condition of buildings in that zone, and dynamically trigger zone events (both good and bad) or even change spawn cycles based on that information.  As civilization expands, the monsters are pushed back... but monster raids become more frequent and targeted as well.

    - Players might come across buildings that are completely destroyed (0 condition) and by rebuilding them, open up new additional content for everyone.  For example, repairing the bridge across the gorge allows players to access a part of the zone they couldn't get to before.

    - Thinking forward to outposts and housing which we hope to see in expansions, the concept of condition could apply to player built structures as well, and be used in addition to traditional coin upkeep to help act as an economic balance.

     

    Anyway, that's the concept.  I think that if Pantheon could implement this it would make for a much more integrated crafting and gathering sphere than we have seen in other games.  I hope, if nothing else, that it's gotten everyone else thinking about the possibilities :)


    This post was edited by Nephele at March 11, 2019 8:32 PM PDT
    • 152 posts
    March 12, 2019 4:23 AM PDT

    Oef, long read but a good one.

    I love the idea, but i'm more concerned with the practicality. Is this need based on character or on the total environment. Because if its based on character i can understand it. But if it is not, it could mean you will force people who do not want to be a crafter, or crafters who do not want to be crafting daily, to do it any way, else their favorite hunting ground will become neglected even tho they are there every hour of the day or week.

    Also this would pose a risk for the lower level area's, not right now but in the near future. When most the community is in mid / end game, the starter zones will start to deteriorate. This will in turn mean that new players joining a server can (and will) have a semi negative experience because the communicatie is unwilling or unable to keep the entire world in proper shape.

    When it is based on players, i love the idea more. This makes crafters get an edge in certain area's, as they can sell and buy for higher / lower prices. This could work with the immersion between high and low levels. Where a high level might have fought or done things in another area causing his faction in the current area to have been degraded. (think of bank runs to exchange coin or supply runs to get rations). 

    Also it would help when there is a need for a certain building, that low quality tools or stations are available in the immediate area (think of a saw horse, campfire or mud furnace). This would be a clear sign construction is needed and you could use local resources to fulfill those needs. With the local resources, you as a person could donate your recently found resources for other crafters to use. This will ofcourse induce a faction hit (positive) for that person as well, making it more of a community effort than a crafters effort bringing more immersion and benefits for both adventurer and crafter (albeit one faster than the other).


    This post was edited by decarsul at March 12, 2019 4:28 AM PDT
    • 973 posts
    March 12, 2019 6:44 AM PDT

    First off I love this idea of an ever evolving world.  My ideal MMO would be one where players actions directly affect which cities thrive and which fail to the point that players are able to found cities themselves and attract both players and NPCs to make it their home.  The more fantastical the area the city is founded in the more difficult it is to make the city thrive and the more specific their needs are.

    Sadly I don’t believe that Pantheon can be this game.  Pantheon is a sequence of hand crafted zones with a quasi theme park design.  The design elements are not intended to fluctuate or change over time and the zones are far, far too small to have dynamic villages or even outposts unless they are deliberately designed into the zone theme.

    I was doing some calculations once and I believe SWG clocked in at the largest total game square mileage at about 900 square miles while WoW launched with a little less than 80.  Even in 2016 EQ only had a little under 300 square miles when considering all live zones combined.  For reference the state of Ohio has around 50,000 square miles and North America is at roughly 10,000,000 and is still only 5% of the entire world.

    A single globe can be modeled as rectangle of height of S and a length of pi()*S and two circles of diameter S connected along the circumference of the circles to the top and bottom of the cylinder for a continuously navigable map.  The total surface area of this distorted globe becomes S^2(3*Pi()/2).  To have a globe the size of Ohio (50,000 square miles) S would need to be equal to 103 miles. This still might be too big for a game world even if 2/3s were water and only half the landmass was reachable.  A side of 10 miles would give us a globe of 471 square miles which was roughly half of what SWG launched with.  The earth itself is messured at roughly 196m miles^2 and a side of 5600 will yield roughly a 151m miles^2 so only a loss of about 25% from a true sphere to a modified cylinder representation.

    I would put forth that we would need a game world with S = 10 at a minimum and if possible as high as 100ish in order to have enough space to have dynamic content.  Obviously at this scale it would be virtually impossible to hand craft the entire world especially with a team the size of VR.  You would need to generate a topography map followed by a sea level depth to create your land masses.  Once you had your topography map with water levels you could effectively paint the areas of different ecosystems with over lapping zones having different concentration ratios.  The ecosystems would then dictate which flora and fauna as well as indigenous civilizations would be in the zones.  If given enough art objects to flesh out the ecosystem you could finally start applying procedurally generated areas taking into account the topography, weather patterns, and unique characteristics of certain ecosystems as well as areas that draw from multiple ecosystems.  It’s possible at this point to even have the boundaries of ecosystems shift over time either randomly or through player interactions.

    A system like this could have most objects including settlements as theoretically destroyable and respawn/evolvable based on the procedures for the eco system.  Sadly I think it would take advancing game design all the way to this point before we could apply dynamic building statuses.  Pantheon just does not seem like a game of the appropriate size or flexibility to allow for dynamic buildings, especially if you get a boot to the head any time you mention any form of instancing.

     

    On a more helpful note I think there might be a way to get some of what you are after even in Pantheon.

    In my mind your idea breaks down into three parts.

    1)      Non static NPC needs for crafted goods

    2)      Non trivial transportation of crafted goods

    3)      Crafting of crafted goods

    I could see giving all NPCs that have an actual function a list of items that they want over a given time.  Depending how much they want it they can offer different levels of rewards.  How fulfilled their needs are could also affect the level of services that they are willing to offer and certain desirable functions will only be available when all of their needs are currently met.

    Anyone who delivers the items the NPC needs will get the reward and anyone who accessed the NPC while the NPC has all their needs met will be able to access the desirable functions assuming that they have high enough faction.

    What this will do will create a player driven consumption of crafted goods for the purposes of keeping key NPCs fully satiated as well as an opportunity for crafting only players to craft goods and deliver them where they are needed most.  This will hopefully generate a cyclical craft and consume process that will allow for a crafter player to focus on crafting and selling rather than mostly harvesting and a little crafting.

    *edit late addition*  Fun facts if Earth S = 5598 then Moon = 1525, Mars = 2978, Venus = 5318, Jupiter = 61434 and the Sun = 611180 man the Sun is big. *end edit*


    This post was edited by Trasak at March 12, 2019 7:56 AM PDT
    • 1430 posts
    March 12, 2019 8:28 AM PDT

    decarsul said:

    Oef, long read but a good one.

    I love the idea, but i'm more concerned with the practicality. Is this need based on character or on the total environment. Because if its based on character i can understand it. But if it is not, it could mean you will force people who do not want to be a crafter, or crafters who do not want to be crafting daily, to do it any way, else their favorite hunting ground will become neglected even tho they are there every hour of the day or week.

    Also this would pose a risk for the lower level area's, not right now but in the near future. When most the community is in mid / end game, the starter zones will start to deteriorate. This will in turn mean that new players joining a server can (and will) have a semi negative experience because the communicatie is unwilling or unable to keep the entire world in proper shape.

    When it is based on players, i love the idea more. This makes crafters get an edge in certain area's, as they can sell and buy for higher / lower prices. This could work with the immersion between high and low levels. Where a high level might have fought or done things in another area causing his faction in the current area to have been degraded. (think of bank runs to exchange coin or supply runs to get rations). 

    Also it would help when there is a need for a certain building, that low quality tools or stations are available in the immediate area (think of a saw horse, campfire or mud furnace). This would be a clear sign construction is needed and you could use local resources to fulfill those needs. With the local resources, you as a person could donate your recently found resources for other crafters to use. This will ofcourse induce a faction hit (positive) for that person as well, making it more of a community effort than a crafters effort bringing more immersion and benefits for both adventurer and crafter (albeit one faster than the other).

    Great thoughts!  I was thinking that conditions would be tracked based on the structure and the zone - the reason for this is that way, multiple players working independently or together would determine the overall outcome, rather than it just being a phasing-type thing for each individual player.

    Your concerns are totally valid though.  I think the way to handle that would be to insure that the rate of decay is something which can be adjusted over time.  So, if population is very large, perhaps conditions decay more quickly.  If populations are dwindling, conditions decaly more slowly.

    I'm not so worried about level ranges because I hope and expect that there will be many reasons for players to stay in all areas of the world, including low-level areas.  But, I recognize the concern and if I'm wrong about that, it would potentially be an issue.

    As far as crafting tools and stations go, I purposely did not talk about that because we don't yet know just how few and far between those things will be in the world.  However, I think that this could work either way - whether you have a crafting station right next to it, or somewhere down the road, you're still able to go put together the items to fill the Need for that building and bring them back.

    This definitely is intended to be a community effort sort of system - much like how diplomacy buffs worked in Vanguard.  The idea in the back of my mind while I was writing was that crafters and gatherers would come through and build up the zones they were in, and everyone would benefit as a result.  Since conditions decay over time, you could also get the instance where people actually asked crafters and gatherers to come help with a specific zone or building - which quite often happened in Vanguard, where you would see people saying "hey, are there any diplomats around that could do X?"  I feel like this kind of engagement is a win for everyone.

    • 1430 posts
    March 12, 2019 8:33 AM PDT

    Trasak said:

     

    Sadly I don’t believe that Pantheon can be this game.  Pantheon is a sequence of hand crafted zones with a quasi theme park design.  The design elements are not intended to fluctuate or change over time and the zones are far, far too small to have dynamic villages or even outposts unless they are deliberately designed into the zone theme.

    I was doing some calculations once and I believe SWG clocked in at the largest total game square mileage at about 900 square miles while WoW launched with a little less than 80.  Even in 2016 EQ only had a little under 300 square miles when considering all live zones combined.  For reference the state of Ohio has around 50,000 square miles and North America is at roughly 10,000,000 and is still only 5% of the entire world.

     

    I love where you went with this but I think you misunderstand what I was going for here :)

    This is something that can work regardless of how big the zone is - the only thing that's needed is for the structures that are in that zone to be addressible objects in some way so that a condition can be tracked for them.  That works whether it's a "small, hand-crafted zone" or a massive place full of player-buildable structures.

     

    Think about it.  A bridge is a bridge, regardless of how big the zone it's in happens to be.  Same for an inn, a tavern, a guard barracks, a stable, a blacksmith's shop, etc.  If you can see a thing in the world, there's no reason that it couldn't use this system, regardless of how it got to be there in the first place.

    • 1710 posts
    March 12, 2019 9:25 AM PDT

    Nephele,

    Do you think that the Perception system could tie into this? I see a player, specialized in some tradeskill related to wood/lumber who then passes near that inn would have a higher chance to get a perception trigger telling them that the building, while popular with the local inhahbitants is showing signs of needing some minor/major fixes.  This way the various tradeskills could each have structures/items/services related perception triggers.  Not knowing exactly what tradeskills we'll have, that same inn visited by a player with a high Cooking tradeskill could see a trigger that the innkeep is in dire need of vegetables, flour and spices.  A blacksmith passing through could see perception triggers pointing out the the local guards have armor needing repairs, blades needing replaced, etc.   Players not focused on a tradeskill needed in that area might very well not see such a perception trigger.  Thoughts?

    • 1430 posts
    March 12, 2019 9:34 AM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    Nephele,

    Do you think that the Perception system could tie into this? I see a player, specialized in some tradeskill related to wood/lumber who then passes near that inn would have a higher chance to get a perception trigger telling them that the building, while popular with the local inhahbitants is showing signs of needing some minor/major fixes.  This way the various tradeskills could each have structures/items/services related perception triggers.  Not knowing exactly what tradeskills we'll have, that same inn visited by a player with a high Cooking tradeskill could see a trigger that the innkeep is in dire need of vegetables, flour and spices.  A blacksmith passing through could see perception triggers pointing out the the local guards have armor needing repairs, blades needing replaced, etc.   Players not focused on a tradeskill needed in that area might very well not see such a perception trigger.  Thoughts?

    I don't see why it couldn't, mechanically speaking.

    That said, I'm always leery of overloading the Perception system too much, because that starts to push it into "requirement" territory for players - and at least initially, VR said they wanted it to be an optional form of gameplay.  So, if this were done, players should probably be able to figure out  80% or more of a structure's Needs without it.  Perception might just grant them access to a bonus Need or two, potentially.

    I also think that it's ok if not every structure has a Need for an individual profession.  For example, the blacksmith probably doesn't need stuff from other blacksmiths.  But he could really use some leather for a new bellows, and some fire-retardant sealant from an alchemist to treat it with.  Needs should always make sense in the context of the structure in question - and that can mean that sometimes, a particular crafting profession or gathering profession just doesn't have anything to contribute at that moment.  On the average, everyone should have plenty of chances to contribute to Needs however.  I think doing it that way fits a lot better in the context of the world than trying to artificially create a task appropriate to each and every profession or player.


    This post was edited by Nephele at March 12, 2019 9:37 AM PDT
    • 50 posts
    March 12, 2019 1:30 PM PDT

    That's an amazing idea. and would love to see it implemented, if not at launch (so as not to further push it back) then hopefully soon after. One concern I thought up straight away was; hopefully the decay doesn't happen too fast, else you'll feel like you're on a treadmill. Always running around but making no progress, it could start to feel like 'hidden' daily quests. Would like to see the repairs/upgrade not decay too quickly, but rather logically. As mentioned previously, have it tied to local PC population; ie, the more players around, the more the structure is probably getting used and would decay a little faster than being unused. However, (also as previously said) there could be sudden drops in repair quality as storms or local attacks cause the building to take a hit. Both of these will enable future crafter/gathers to still have work open to them, and should help prevent the feelings of being on a treadmill, or having to start from scratch with each new person in the area. Also, hopefully PC population will be mixed and mingled across most of the zones as well, to off set the baren starting area effects we see so often.

    • 216 posts
    March 12, 2019 6:18 PM PDT

    I really like this idea Neph.  

    It makes too much sense. 

    I had a thought while reading all this that it would be interesting if certain NPCs only appear say in January at your Inn IF it is in tip top condition and yet other NPCs may only appear IF it is running poorly in July.  

    They could be anything from a rare boss mob in poor conditions to a rare quest mobs (say for an epic) in tip top conditions. 

    The system would likely be complex to implement the first time, but I believe could be done in a gerneric enough way to be applied to any instance of a structure.  The complex and not so generic part would be making tasks that make sense for a given place and time.  But those tasks should essentially be loadedable into the structure depending on its condition and what structure it is. 

    So maybe there is some base set of tasks for an Inn that couuld be created for each tier of condition.   Then you can just apply that to any Inn in the game.  But certian Inns might have additional special easter egg tasks that might apply a condition to spawn certain NPCs etc. 

    Good stuff..Whether pantheon will implement such an idea remains to be seen but I certainly hope they take a look at it. 

     

     

    • 1196 posts
    March 12, 2019 9:34 PM PDT

    Nephele said: ... - The game could track the overall condition of zones as an aggregate of the condition of buildings in that zone, and dynamically trigger zone events (both good and bad) or even change spawn cycles based on that information.  As civilization expands, the monsters are pushed back... but monster raids become more frequent and targeted as well. ...

    I like the idea in principle, but would extend it further to include being able to trigger events arbitrarily, per player.  You only need 1 km x 1km zone for 400 1m x 1m temporary yet persistent adjustment areas, per player, with 2500 players per server.  That's plenty of space for many harvesting / crafting related options, in just one zone.
    And for clarity, an event of this type or scale isn't 1000 dragons all flying in and burning everything.  It could be something as simple as planting a rare herb, building a bee box, or planting and magically accelerating the growth of a single tree.

    • 152 posts
    March 13, 2019 12:56 AM PDT

    Nephele said:

    Great thoughts!  I was thinking that conditions would be tracked based on the structure and the zone - the reason for this is that way, multiple players working independently or together would determine the overall outcome, rather than it just being a phasing-type thing for each individual player.

    Your concerns are totally valid though.  I think the way to handle that would be to insure that the rate of decay is something which can be adjusted over time.  So, if population is very large, perhaps conditions decay more quickly.  If populations are dwindling, conditions decaly more slowly.

    Well, i geuss there is an alternative for this too. You could base decay on usage / number of visits or time divided by average population of the zone. this might become complex tho. As i would assume if the patrol comes by for a drink things can get heated with local scallywags and cause faster deterioration, but the same could apply if they are not present. resulting in chairs and tables being thrown, ale being spilled etc. etc. Or if an event happens where 2 locals get married, special ale's could be requested, flowers, fireworks so on so forth. Plenty of potential!

    Nephele said:

    As far as crafting tools and stations go, I purposely did not talk about that because we don't yet know just how few and far between those things will be in the world.  However, I think that this could work either way - whether you have a crafting station right next to it, or somewhere down the road, you're still able to go put together the items to fill the Need for that building and bring them back.

    Aye i agree, i just hope there will be a writ type of system to prevent overproduction for the needs. Obviously they would still need to be fulfilled and if X amount of time passes the writ should be given out again untill the amount of writs needed to upgrade have been reached. and for the primitive tools being available, i was really only thinking about the lower decay states. It wouldn't make sence to place a pristine forge next to a building needing to upgrade to pristine quality, requiring pristine resources not found locally. But for the trivial stuff like wooden planks, i'm fairly sure there will be a tree near, and since historically speaking most utility buildings were build with local materials, it makes most the sence.


    This post was edited by decarsul at March 13, 2019 1:07 AM PDT
    • 467 posts
    May 8, 2019 7:16 AM PDT

    I like this thread so I want to share a remotely related idea here rather than create a new thread.  I'll keep it short.

    Some players will want to create female avatars and equip them with armor that 'shows some skin'.
    Some players will want to create female avatars and equip them with armor that 'covers their skin.'

     I often think of the Breastplate episode of Epic NPC Man.

    Is it in the realm of possibility to give crafters the option, as they craft the armor, to make it more or less revealing?  I was thinking 2 options, not a slider or anything crazy.

    Two relate it to the OP, perhaps there are two recipies for a breastplate; one from a warm region and one from a cold region.

    • 1430 posts
    May 8, 2019 7:38 PM PDT

    Tigersin said:

    I like this thread so I want to share a remotely related idea here rather than create a new thread.  I'll keep it short.

    Some players will want to create female avatars and equip them with armor that 'shows some skin'.
    Some players will want to create female avatars and equip them with armor that 'covers their skin.'

     I often think of the Breastplate episode of Epic NPC Man.

    Is it in the realm of possibility to give crafters the option, as they craft the armor, to make it more or less revealing?  I was thinking 2 options, not a slider or anything crazy.

    Two relate it to the OP, perhaps there are two recipies for a breastplate; one from a warm region and one from a cold region.

    This is where I actually like what Vanguard did with its regional styles.  You made the same armor, or weapons, but based on where you had traveled as a crafter and learned from, you got to choose how it looked.

    You could do something similar to that for Pantheon.  Maybe everyone starts off knowing their basic continental or racial style.  But they can visit places to learn others.  And somewhere along the way, they could learn alternate styles for each continent/race.  Perhaps a "parade" or "dress" style that's very fancy, a "field" style that's covering slightly less because soldiers in the outlands need more mobility, and a "mercenary" style that looks like someone scrounged parts off a battlefield instead of having a full set, but still looks somewhat protective.

    Done this way, acquiring the alternate styles becomes a rite of passage for crafters.  Especially if they want to do that for each race/continent.

    Of course, all of that hinges on how much the artists can actually get into the game.