Forums » The Dark Myr

Dark Myr: Paladins + Shaman

    • 246 posts
    March 7, 2019 10:13 PM PST

    Paladin obviously makes the most sense, as they can be clerics and warriors. Shaman fits due to their previous water affinities and how shaman heal with Water spells. At least that's my take. I could see that because the human can be everything, how the Dark Myr would be the evil reflection of that. Here's to hoping that there will be some tweaks to the race/class matrix prior to launch! Anyone else feel this way?

    • 2483 posts
    March 8, 2019 9:50 AM PST

    I kind of like the idea for Dark Myr society where someone casting aside the customs of the cleric order (and thereby the much beloved Syronai) to claim judgement in their own hands to distribute as they see fit as being considered heresy and an affront to the memory of Syronai. 

     

    As for Shaman, I don't know. Shaman seems to fit more to me than Druid for them. 

    • 705 posts
    March 12, 2019 10:24 AM PDT

    I think a lot of us want some tweaks to the race/class matrix, but I doubt we will see that for several years.  Allowing races to be other classes will be implimented to increase player interest.

    • 467 posts
    May 1, 2019 7:48 PM PDT

    I've been thinking about this thread for a week and finally have an opinion. 

    Paladin: Yes

    “As I lay with my face against the sands, I saw the Nythirian Guard with their twin tridents grasped for battle, hovering below the surface. In my near paralysis, face half under the water and one eye above, I betook the whole of them in perfect battle formation, firm against the death burning up within their bodies. I saw their skin turn red as the breath dried out of them in the acrid underwater breeze, their pose unyielding as statues. I could only lie still, my body just beginning to lose the deep cold of a life beneath the waves. Yet I could not stop from weeping.”


    Shaman: No

    Becuase the Myr are of Issul and for Issul. They're collectively focused on their own future.

     

    Update:

    It occurrs to me only tonight that the Dark Myr can't be righteous judges (Paladins).  Not because they murdered their creator, but for the same reason they wouldn't make particularly good Shamans... they're too focused on their goal of conquest and returning to glory...

    "...the Dark Myr have descended like the ancient leviathans they were born to destroy."

    So I'm back to Paladin:  No


    This post was edited by Tigersin at May 30, 2019 6:49 PM PDT
    • 373 posts
    July 10, 2019 10:37 PM PDT

    Tigersin said:

    Update:

    It occurrs to me only tonight that the Dark Myr can't be righteous judges (Paladins).  Not because they murdered their creator, but for the same reason they wouldn't make particularly good Shamans... they're too focused on their goal of conquest and returning to glory...

    "...the Dark Myr have descended like the ancient leviathans they were born to destroy."

    So I'm back to Paladin:  No

    1)  The Dark Myr didn't murder Syronai.  The Nythirian Red did it, and they are not part of the Dark Myr (who were outraged by that act)

    2)  While being driven by a desire conquest might be generally descriptive of the Mry, their society is not a monolith.  It's perfectly reasonable to expect individuals within Myr society to value different goals to different degrees, especially ones that belong to a religous order.  I can imagine the motto of a Dark Mry paladin to be Captain America's line from Avengers: Endgame-- "Some people move on... not us"

    • 17 posts
    August 28, 2019 12:14 PM PDT
    I would agree with you that individuals may take a different path in any society. That is just the nature of things. However, the issue becomes how many people stray away from the norm and for how long have they done so. In order for a paladin class to be viable, a large enough number of individuals would necessarily have broken away from the general society and gathered together. They would then need to amass the resources needed to construct a school to teach their ways to others and do so while not being attacked or destroyed by the adherents of the greater society at large. While doing all of they they would also have to exist for a significant period of time. Mostly so that they could become a powerful enough of a faction that they always had enough students to keep the teachings alive for the next generations and replace fallen comrades. It sounds good to say that it is possible for there to be paladins. But the chances of such a thing to transpire in a homogenous society is rather slim. It would probably require extraordinary outside influence or a have to have formed from a geographical disconnected habitat from the main body of the group.
    • 705 posts
    September 4, 2019 8:43 PM PDT

    @aMindAmok that was a very well thought out and logical explanation of why Dark Myr may not be Paladins, but the very description of the Paladin makes it all irrelevant:

    "Once a Cleric themselves, the Paladin has felt a call that transcends the rigid customs of the Cleric Order. Led by their convictions, the Paladins set off on their own to carry out their righteous judgment as they see fit."

    By their definition they are just clerics that have an "unquenchable hatred" for undead so much so that they throw aside their cleric order to use melee weapons more effectively.

    There's no need to "amass the resources needed to construct a school to teach their ways" since their ways are simply that of a cleric that has left their order to learn to use martial weapons which were restricted by their cleric order.  If anything, that sounds kind of unlawful/unfaithful to me.  -Shrug-

    • 2483 posts
    September 5, 2019 3:30 PM PDT

    Darch said:

    @aMindAmok that was a very well thought out and logical explanation of why Dark Myr may not be Paladins, but the very description of the Paladin makes it all irrelevant:

    "Once a Cleric themselves, the Paladin has felt a call that transcends the rigid customs of the Cleric Order. Led by their convictions, the Paladins set off on their own to carry out their righteous judgment as they see fit."

    By their definition they are just clerics that have an "unquenchable hatred" for undead so much so that they throw aside their cleric order to use melee weapons more effectively.

    There's no need to "amass the resources needed to construct a school to teach their ways" since their ways are simply that of a cleric that has left their order to learn to use martial weapons which were restricted by their cleric order.  If anything, that sounds kind of unlawful/unfaithful to me.  -Shrug-

    They didn't simply leave the order, they disagree with the Cleric Order to the point that they cast aside their dogma/teachings/principles/authority. I'd imagine to the Dark Myr in particular this would be considered heresy. 

    • 705 posts
    September 5, 2019 5:36 PM PDT

    @iksar, I agree.  It is heresy to cast aside one's religious order.  The PRotF Paladin is a heretic by description.  The very definition of a heretic is to be at odds with a "traditional" religious belief.  I would think that all races would be capable of tossing aside religious beliefs... unless in PRotF religious beliefs are not actually beliefs but instead genetic code and only Dwarves and Humans are capable of changing their minds or having opinions that differ from everyone else of their ethnicity/species.

    • 2483 posts
    September 6, 2019 12:10 PM PDT

    Darch said:

    @iksar, I agree.  It is heresy to cast aside one's religious order.  The PRotF Paladin is a heretic by description.  The very definition of a heretic is to be at odds with a "traditional" religious belief.  I would think that all races would be capable of tossing aside religious beliefs... unless in PRotF religious beliefs are not actually beliefs but instead genetic code and only Dwarves and Humans are capable of changing their minds or having opinions that differ from everyone else of their ethnicity/species.

    There are many factors involved that influence how one race's culture/society might react to something (such as people publicly decrying the Cleric Order) compared to others, regardless of if they are able or not. Just because the societal circumstances for humans and dwarves allowed a rise of Paladin orders/guilds doesn't mean that Dark Myr would or should also look favorably upon such a thing, especially given how incredibly central and beloved Syronai is in their culture even with what limited lore we have access too. To denouce the Cleric Order of Syronai would be an attack on Dark Myr as a people, it would be the ultimate insult and something I don't imagine they would turn a blind eye to and even allow those that do to hold land and organize/build their ranks. 


    This post was edited by Iksar at September 6, 2019 12:10 PM PDT
    • 705 posts
    September 7, 2019 4:35 PM PDT

    @Iksar - That would be a perfect reason to "set off on their own to carry out their righteous judgment as they see fit"

    • 2483 posts
    September 9, 2019 10:39 AM PDT

    I'm not saying Dark Myr paladin don't exist, just that if they do they are exiles and exist nowhere near the capitol...and they likely don't have any sort of formal order or training. Maybe in an expansion or something. 

    • 705 posts
    September 12, 2019 5:12 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    I'm not saying Dark Myr paladin don't exist, just that if they do they are exiles and exist nowhere near the capitol...and they likely don't have any sort of formal order or training. Maybe in an expansion or something. 

    I'm assuming the same - with possible new races and classes in that expansion as well (to promote more players creating new characters).  This is one of the reasons I'm very reluctant to play Human Paladin (and why I also hate the current race/class matrix) - I would be unbelievably upset if I speant 2-4 years playing a human paladin because it was the only thing available to me when I started, only to have n00bs being able to play Dark Myr/Archai Paladins/Rangers, Elven clerics or Gnome warriors... or whatever isn't available now.  So many games have burned me with moves like that which are only there to generate more/prolong subscribers :(

    Although DL or Pal would typically be my primary class of choice and Dark Myr would be my ideal race choice, I will likely make a Pal or DL long after the game has been live and any "end game" balancing issues have been addressed or at least brought to the attention of the devs... then I'll twink one (if they aren't terribad compared to the warrior haha).

    I'll probably do a healer or CC to get a "bird's eye view" of the game first (instead of being in the thick of the melee combat) even though my favorite role is typically tanking.

    We'll see :)

    • 2 posts
    September 24, 2019 11:17 AM PDT

    I realize this may be an unpopular opinion :P 

     

    I think a Shaman is perfectly fit as a Dark Myr.  After reading over the classes and the races due to the water affinity it almost seems like that would be the ideal case.   I don't really see the Dark Myr being Paladins though or even Clerics, maybe swap out the Cleric with the Shaman. Then the whole idea of Paladins just hating undead more than regular Clerics would make more sense to just not have either of those in the Dark Myr list of options. The Dark Myr don't need to be the almost everything race like Humans are.   To me if the race doesn't allow for paladins, then there shouldn't be Clerics either, so in this case just cancel out Clerics and put in Shamans.  :) 

     

     

    • 705 posts
    September 29, 2019 5:12 PM PDT

    @Exitilus - I agree 100% but unfortunately using common sense or lore is not really the reason for the race/class matrix... the lore is trying to be created from the race/class matrix instead of vice versa.  Their choices for race/class combos are for class and race population balancing. 

    • 1660 posts
    September 29, 2019 8:56 PM PDT

    Darch said:

    @Exitilus - I agree 100% but unfortunately using common sense or lore is not really the reason for the race/class matrix... the lore is trying to be created from the race/class matrix instead of vice versa.  Their choices for race/class combos are for class and race population balancing. 

     

    Disagreeing with the official race/class matrix doesn't make it unlore wise, honestly I doubt of it for the sole reason pretty much all race/matrix combos seems logical to me. Beeing a water race doesn't mean you have to have access to the only class that has obvious water spell, that goes far beyond this simplicity. I do not agree with your statement at all, mostly because the "logic" of the race/class matrix depends on how you want to see it, but your own sight is not universal neither more right than any other.

    • 19 posts
    September 30, 2019 11:43 PM PDT

    the class/race matrix is already unbalanced and humans can be everything so I don't see why we are worried about them being "even" because they are not. Ogers can only be 4 classes for instance, while humans can be all 14. Most classes can be 6 +

    Dark Myr is the Race I plan to main, i could see Dark Myr giving up Druid to gain Paladin, if balance is truely the goal, which I don't believe it is. Druid seems strange to me for Dark Myr but welcome none the less. But as mentioned if you can be a cleric, why couldn't you be a paladin. In lore (in general) Paladins and Clerics are fairly interchangeable.

    This is just my opinion and  I am still catching myself up on all the reading associated with the game so correct me if i am wrong but I feel most people are adding their own personal opinions and interpretations to the lore to make conclusions. (myself included)

    • 705 posts
    October 10, 2019 12:41 PM PDT

    @Yaz87x, the class/race matrix is for class balancing, because like you said yourself, you already plan on playing the Dark Myr as your main race... Dark Myr will likely be one of the 3-4 top played races, and if they were allowed to be Paladins and Rangers they would likely be the number one played race.  The devs are banking on making Thronefast THE city of choice so they want a lot of people to play human.  

     

    • 351 posts
    October 15, 2019 4:06 AM PDT

    I definitely agree with OP. The lack of these classes for DarkMyr is weird and "unrealistic"

     

    Darch said:

    @Yaz87x, the class/race matrix is for class balancing, because like you said yourself, you already plan on playing the Dark Myr as your main race... Dark Myr will likely be one of the 3-4 top played races, and if they were allowed to be Paladins and Rangers they would likely be the number one played race.  The devs are banking on making Thronefast THE city of choice so they want a lot of people to play human.  

     

     

    Seriously? I don't think it works that way - in my opinion there are 2 main human-race related type of gamers - either those that (just like myself) in a video game when given a choice of the race will go everything BUT human and those that loves their character to be as similar to them as possible and play mainly humans. So as of this moment i'm left with no choice but to play dwarf (which i'm fine with and probably would stick to this race for paladin anyway, but still... the alternative would be great). Honestly the lack of shaman for them is a lot weirder for me - they just should have bonus to water boons and banes and penalty for fire ones.